LATAM ticket buggered up by QF

[markis10]

And then I just realised that LA could just send QF the funds it would've allocated to itself for the LA801 flight but then again I'm not in the industry/space so am just spitballi

LA don’t owe QF anything if they didn’t get permission to change flights.

 

[madrooster]

So did QF effectively "steal" that component of the fare from LA?

Yes.

The rules are they aren't supposed to if there was no real impact to the onward segment. In this case, there shouldn't have been any impact to the LA810. So by the rules, QF shouldn't have done that.

Since QF took the SYD-SCL coupon they'll send LA the bill for the value of that specific coupon. Ordinarily on automated billing LA will then pay QF for the coupon value of that coupon, whatever that value is. LA can always stop that manually in their interline settlement if they wish to...if they do.

It's not always in a carrier's interests to take a coupon unnecessarily. LA for example, charges a lower fare overall ex-AU than QF. That means that coupon value will be lower than QF's average fare. But, if QF27 originally wasn't full anyway then it's free money. There are pros and cons.

 

[MathNerd]

Great Info MathNerd, thanks for that. I heard your mate almost got caught out because he was smashing beers at the airport!

Oh, wouldn't you know it! So dodgy

Yes.

The rules are they aren't supposed to if there was no real impact to the onward segment. In this case, there shouldn't have been any impact to the LA810. So by the rules, QF shouldn't have done that.

Since QF took the SYD-SCL coupon they'll send LA the bill for the value of that specific coupon. Ordinarily on automated billing LA will then pay QF for the coupon value of that coupon, whatever that value is. LA can always stop that manually in their interline settlement if they wish to...if they do.

It's not always in a carrier's interests to take a coupon unnecessarily. LA for example, charges a lower fare overall ex-AU than QF. That means that coupon value will be lower than QF's average fare. But, if QF27 originally wasn't full anyway then it's free money. There are pros and cons.

Thought as much, thanks so much @madrooster for your very valuable insight. What you've posted above is exactly what I assumed happened in the background (I can't imagine QF would fly a pax [actually, multiple pax who commenced their journeys in MEL all having SCL as part of their itinerary, who got hit with this IRROPS] across a full transpac (?) for free, there has to be something in it for them financially).

You're right though, QF would "earn" a lot less than their own coupon value for that segment as LA would be setting the "price".

I'd love to know what exactly happened for him to get offloaded off LA810 in the first place, was it QF IT algorithms or an actual manual change? I guess I'll never know without an insider at QF or LA.

Thanks heaps, I love how an unfortunate situation such as this has collectively increased the knowledge base of the community especially with interline settlements between carriers (in this case OW, I presume it would be similar for *A or ST).

Thanks again.

 

[justinbrett]

Yes.

The rules are they aren't supposed to if there was no real impact to the onward segment. In this case, there shouldn't have been any impact to the LA810. So by the rules, QF shouldn't have done that.

Since QF took the SYD-SCL coupon they'll send LA the bill for the value of that specific coupon. Ordinarily on automated billing LA will then pay QF for the coupon value of that coupon, whatever that value is. LA can always stop that manually in their interline settlement if they wish to...if they do.

It's not always in a carrier's interests to take a coupon unnecessarily. LA for example, charges a lower fare overall ex-AU than QF. That means that coupon value will be lower than QF's average fare. But, if QF27 originally wasn't full anyway then it's free money. There are pros and cons.

If QF rebooked on the LA code wouldn’t that solve this?

 

[opusman]

I'd love to know what exactly happened for him to get offloaded off LA810 in the first place

I wonder if whoever handled rebooking the first leg had an oopsie and cancelled the whole booking accidentally rather than just that leg. So "fixed" it by booking him on the QF flight but either hadn't noticed the onward flight to Cusco or did notice but decided to leave it for LA to fix.

 

[madrooster]

If QF rebooked on the LA code wouldn’t that solve this?

They can't - it's a blockspace codeshare.

 

[MathNerd]

They can't - it's a blockspace codeshare.

Love it - learning so much General Aviation/GDS lingo in this thread, thanks so much.

 

[MathNerd]

Update:

Mate's return flight back to MEL from CUZ is later today (CUZ-LIM-SCL-MEL), and given QF only ply between SCL and SYD not MEL, this should be a smooth journey and he shouldn't be able to get shunted onto a QF service.

I've been *gardening " the ticket and all seems to be fine, so we'll see how check-in goes at CUZ later today and fingers crossed no IRROPS this time, as he'll be flying with his partner and their son (who are on a separate PNR to him given the separate departure from MEL).

It's certainly been a valuable learning experience seeing what happens with these long haul, multi carrier journeys and how airlines handle changes on the fly like this (manually or automatically), but it certainly pays to keep checking the itinerary, even after check-in!

Will update again when he arrives safely in MEL, but thanks again everyone for joining in this crazy journey and all the valuable insights that have been provided.

Much appreciated.

 

[MathNerd]

Update:

Mate's return flight back to MEL from CUZ is later today (CUZ-LIM-SCL-MEL), and given QF only ply between SCL and SYD not MEL, this should be a smooth journey and he shouldn't be able to get shunted onto a QF service.

I've been *gardening " the ticket and all seems to be fine, so we'll see how check-in goes at CUZ later today and fingers crossed no IRROPS this time, as he'll be flying with his partner and their son (who are on a separate PNR to him given the separate departure from MEL).

It's certainly been a valuable learning experience seeing what happens with these long haul, multi carrier journeys and how airlines handle changes on the fly like this (manually or automatically), but it certainly pays to keep checking the itinerary, even after check-in!

Will update again when he arrives safely in MEL, but thanks again everyone for joining in this crazy journey and all the valuable insights that have been provided.

Much appreciated.

Final update everyone:

Mate made it back to MEL, as scheduled, all in one piece.

Only issue, his phone was left on the CUZ-LIM flight, so it's been stuck in Lima for a few days. It's currently being chartered back to MEL as we speak, and guess what it's being sent on QF's service from SCL-SYD!

However, the journey itself was fine, the ticket had all segments in it, and we met each other at work on Monday upon our respective returns to work.

All is well, and all it took was some serious work on the ground - team effort (thanks so much everyone)!

Thanks all, what a story!

 

[Seat0B]

You're a very good friend @MathNerd to go to so much trouble for @MathNerd’s Mate! I'm sure he's very grateful

 

[MathNerd]

You're a very good friend @MathNerd to go to so much trouble for @MathNerd’s Mate! I'm sure he's very grateful

Thank you @Seat0B, that's very kind of you.
I loved helping @MathNerd’s Mate's Mate (long story, it's funny), and learnt a lot along the way. I just love aviation, airport codes, ticketing etc.
It's funny because I copped a serious IRROPS too (with SQ, but somehow had QF pulled into the mix). Look through my posts over on the SQ Tips Tricks Tales thread, however I had to figure that one all out by myself

Sadly I'm just a lowly maths teacher at a high school so don't have the qualifications to transition to doing something like this full-time. I really would love to.

Maybe @madrooster has a vacancy at his gig? At least that way I won't get called unspeakable things, have chairs thrown at me, and have students clients actually respect me and the work I do (if you know a teacher in your life the above will make sense). Anyway I digress.

Thanks again, really appreciate the kind words. What an absolute adventure. All's well that ends well.

 

[I love to travel]

Thank you @Seat0B, that's very kind of you.
I loved helping @MathNerd’s Mate's Mate (long story, it's funny), and learnt a lot along the way. I just love aviation, airport codes, ticketing etc.
It's funny because I copped a serious IRROPS too (with SQ, but somehow had QF pulled into the mix). Look through my posts over on the SQ Tips Tricks Tales thread, however I had to figure that one all out by myself

Sadly I'm just a lowly maths teacher at a high school so don't have the qualifications to transition to doing something like this full-time. I really would love to.

Maybe @madrooster has a vacancy at his gig? At least that way I won't get called unspeakable things, have chairs thrown at me, and have students clients actually respect me and the work I do (if you know a teacher in your life the above will make sense). Anyway I digress.

Thanks again, really appreciate the kind words. What an absolute adventure. All's well that ends well.

I think you might need to edit your post as some of the content is duplicated.

More importantly, even though I don't know you, your post made my cry and just want to give you a hug. Teachers are so undervalued and they have the most impossible job in these times. You are anything but a 'lowly maths teacher'.

 

[MathNerd]

I think you might need to edit your post as some of the content is duplicated.

More importantly, even though I don't know you, your post made my cry and just want to give you a hug. Teachers are so undervalued and they have the most impossible job in these times. You are anything but a 'lowly maths teacher'.

That is so, so kind of you, @I love to travel.
It's only been 3 days back into the term and so much has happened already that I'm wishing it was the end of term. Your comment made my day. Thank you.

Especially given the absolute journey I had to go through, to get back to school on Monday (I can link you to the comment where this is explained if you like).

Thank you again, made my day, really.

 

[drron]

@MathNerd another that thinks that there is no such thing as a lowly maths teacher. One of my favourite teachers at high school was my maths teacher who I had for the whole 6 years. He went above and beyond and really taught me how to think maths so that in the leaving certificate I got honours in Maths I finishing in the top ten.
As well one of my sisters was a maths teacher and the other taught languages.

Where would this world be without maths teachers. Not in a good place I would think.

Again what a friend you have been. Personally I think it’s people like you who should get awards not entertainers, sports players and entitled folks.

All The very best for the future and I hope you get to enjoy travelling for a long time to come.

 

[Seat0B]

Thank you @Seat0B, that's very kind of you.
I loved helping @MathNerd’s Mate's Mate (long story, it's funny), and learnt a lot along the way. I just love aviation, airport codes, ticketing etc.
It's funny because I copped a serious IRROPS too (with SQ, but somehow had QF pulled into the mix). Look through my posts over on the SQ Tips Tricks Tales thread, however I had to figure that one all out by myself

Sadly I'm just a lowly maths teacher at a high school so don't have the qualifications to transition to doing something like this full-time. I really would love to.

Maybe @madrooster has a vacancy at his gig? At least that way I won't get called unspeakable things, have chairs thrown at me, and have students clients actually respect me and the work I do (if you know a teacher in your life the above will make sense). Anyway I digress.

Thanks again, really appreciate the kind words. What an absolute adventure. All's well that ends well.

I was a high school teacher for a little while so I totally understand where you’re coming from. It’s never too late to retrain for a career you love.

 

[DejaBrew]

Sadly I'm just a lowly maths teacher at a high school so don't have the qualifications to transition to doing something like this full-time. I really would love to.

Multiple teachers - primary and high school - in my family @MathNerd and I wholeheartedly agree with earlier posters that there is no such thing as a "lowly maths" teacher.

I know all too well how teachers are so often-undervalued, whilst at the same time being so incredibly critical to each and every one of us becoming functional and contributing members of society. Many don't truly understand or appreciate the indelible impact you and your profession have on them until later in life, but I guarantee that for each of the "difficult clients" with whom you deal, there are many more young lives who will have been forever impacted for the better as a direct result of your care and efforts. So thank you for everything you do to positively impact each of these young lives.

Agree with @Seat0B that it's never too late to retrain. The skillset of a teacher is highly-valued in other industries, and I have no doubt you could transition to something that would bring you great fulfillment. Whatever you decide, make sure to take the time to look out for yourself - no job is worth the price of your health and wellbeing.

 

[MathNerd]

@MathNerd another that thinks that there is no such thing as a lowly maths teacher. One of my favourite teachers at high school was my maths teacher who I had for the whole 6 years. He went above and beyond and really taught me how to think maths so that in the leaving certificate I got honours in Maths I finishing in the top ten.
As well one of my sisters was a maths teacher and the other taught languages.

Where would this world be without maths teachers. Not in a good place I would think.

Again what a friend you have been. Personally I think it’s people like you who should get awards not entertainers, sports players and entitled folks.

All The very best for the future and I hope you get to enjoy travelling for a long time to come.

I was a high school teacher for a little while so I totally understand where you’re coming from. It’s never too late to retrain for a career you love.

Multiple teachers - primary and high school - in my family @MathNerd and I wholeheartedly agree with earlier posters that there is no such thing as a "lowly maths" teacher.

I know all too well how teachers are so often-undervalued, whilst at the same time being so incredibly critical to each and every one of us becoming functional and contributing members of society. Many don't truly understand or appreciate the indelible impact you and your profession have on them until later in life, but I guarantee that for each of the "difficult clients" with whom you deal, there are many more young lives who will have been forever impacted for the better as a direct result of your care and efforts. So thank you for everything you do to positively impact each of these young lives.

Agree with @Seat0B that it's never too late to retrain. The skillset of a teacher is highly-valued in other industries, and I have no doubt you could transition to something that would bring you great fulfillment. Whatever you decide, make sure to take the time to look out for yourself - no job is worth the price of your health and wellbeing.

Hi again all, firstly - apologies for the late response. Been meaning to get back to this for a while, but needed to get out of the tired mindset first.

I'd like to sincerely thank you all for being so supportive. It means a lot. That's why I love this community. We all have our own experiences and expertise to share around, and we all get something of value from being a part of this site.

Sadly, the teaching/education "industry" is facing a sharp decline, with a number of correlated factors leading it to be an incredibly stressful and tiring gig. When you've got lots of experience and desire to better the lives of others, but that help is not received or is rejected, it leaves you feeling disheartened. Face this every single day, and it wears you down. I'm sure you've all seen the news around.

At this point, I'll have to hold my ground while I try and think and figure out other options. The "dream job"/"endgame" gig would be to be in a J cabin for most days of the year, hurtling between cities, and typing up maths documents (tests, assessments, worksheets, etc), kind of like a consultant and document expert mashed into one. Sadly there's probably no market for it, so will have to stay where I am unless things get extremely dire.

For now, the best thing to do is just enjoy the major perk (school holidays), as it allows me to book my award redemptions a year out, given the exact fixed dates, and make the most of that sureity.

Until then, thanks so much for the kind words, for the encouragement, and I'm glad that you could see the lengths I'd go to for mates/colleagues when it comes to flight bookings/IRROPS etc. It's nice being "the flight guy" of the office, just means more airport codes/GDS lingo/etc!

All the best, and looking forward to meeting everyone at a meetup at some point in the future.

Happy travels - cheers, here's to (a) great flight(s)!