Jetstar plane 'nearly hit' city: passenger

[dede]

Personally I think the other stories from the Cairns Bugle are much more interesting!

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[NYCguy]

I wonder if the Cairns Post still publishes the names and occupations of people caught drink-driving or in possession of a joint or two?

Classy, classy, classy!

 

[Moody]

Now I should precede my comments by stating that I wasn't there, which of course means I probably shouldn't be spouting off like this. But what the heck - it hasn't stopped anyone else!

From the facts available it seems that a Jetstar A320 descended in bad weather directly over the Cairns CBD until a height of around 256m, at which time (actually a few seconds before) the captain decides to abort and performs a rapid turn and climb. How rapid? Well it appears to me to exceed the maximum climb rate for an A320 which has been variously stated at 2200 - 2500 fpm, but I don't suppose that is most prominent in the mind when performing an abort.

I could well imagine that it was a worrying experience for both passengers and residents, regardless of the fact that the plane was 200m away from hitting anything. It's not Hong Kong after all.

So I don't think the passenger (who was not a novice flyer) is deserving of all the hate mail, and the hysteria is not to be found in the Cairns Post but is a little closer to home.

 

[markis10]

From the facts available it seems that a Jetstar A320 descended in bad weather directly over the Cairns CBD until a height of around 256m, at which time (actually a few seconds before) the captain decides to abort and performs a rapid turn and climb. How rapid? Well it appears to me to exceed the maximum climb rate for an A320 which has been variously stated at 2200 - 2500 fpm, but I don't suppose that is most prominent in the mind when performing an abort.

Max climb rate is not something normally set by aircraft suppliers but may be imposed by airlines for passenger comfort, not sure where your getting your figures from but a typical climb sub 10000ft will be 2500fpm for an A319/20/21 aircraft with fuel and a good pax load, given this one did 2800fpm based on SSR data its hardly rocketing up by comparison, in fact JQ58 has exactly the same climb rate 5 minutes later despite aborting the approach much earlier than Cairns Central.

If its news that a captain did his best to get the passengers to where they wanted to be then so be it, but any criticism of the captain over his flying and safety concerns are clearly undeserved and unfounded based on the evidence at hand to those that were not in the coughpit at the time.

 

[straitman]

Now I should precede my comments by stating that I wasn't there, which of course means I probably shouldn't be spouting off like this. But what the heck - it hasn't stopped anyone else!

From the facts available it seems that a Jetstar A320 descended in bad weather directly over the Cairns CBD until a height of around 256m, at which time (actually a few seconds before) the captain decides to abort and performs a rapid turn and climb. How rapid? Well it appears to me to exceed the maximum climb rate for an A320 which has been variously stated at 2200 - 2500 fpm, but I don't suppose that is most prominent in the mind when performing an abort.

I could well imagine that it was a worrying experience for both passengers and residents, regardless of the fact that the plane was 200m away from hitting anything. It's not Hong Kong after all.

So I don't think the passenger (who was not a novice flyer) is deserving of all the hate mail, and the hysteria is not to be found in the Cairns Post but is a little closer to home.

Further to what markis10 has written to answer your post.

The flying pilot on a go around will, at a point defined by the approach plate, apply a set power figure and select a specified pitch, and in this case roll, attitude and the aircraft will fly away at what ever performance it gives. If 2200 - 2500 fpm is normal for a heavy A320 aircraft then there is nothing abnormal about 2800 fpm for a relatively light aircraft.

 

[NYCguy]

From the very interesting site Airbusdriver.net, the Airbus Flight Control Laws:

Load factor Limitation
Prevents pilot from overstressing the aircraft even if full sidestick deflections are applied.

Attitude Protection
Pitch limited to 30 deg up, 15 deg down, and 67 deg of bank.
These limits are indicated by green = signs on the PFD.
Bank angles in excess of 33 deg require constant sidestick input.
If input is released the aircraft returns to and maintains 33 deg of bank.

High Angle of Attack Protection (alpha):
When alpha exceeds alpha prot, elevator control switches to alpha protection mode in which angle of attack is proportional to sidestick deflection.
Alpha max will not be exceeded even if the pilot applies full aft deflection

High Speed Protection:
Prevents exceeding VMO or MMO by introducing a pitch up load factor demand.
The pilot can NOT override the pitch up command.



Conclusion - Convincing an A320 to do something that will exceed it's limitations is nigh-on impossible when the flight-control systems are all ops-normal.

 

[pauly7]

, but it definitely got people talking around the town.

Having resided in Cairns I feel I can add without predjudice that doesn't take much at all to get people talking around the town

 

[medhead]

Personally I think the other stories from the Cairns Bugle are much more interesting!

I personally like
Cut snake on mend as friend tucks into toy- Local Cairns News | cairns.com.au

 

[Moody]

Max climb rate is not something normally set by aircraft suppliers but may be imposed by airlines for passenger comfort, not sure where your getting your figures from but a typical climb sub 10000ft will be 2500fpm for an A319/20/21 aircraft with fuel and a good pax load, given this one did 2800fpm based on SSR data its hardly rocketing up by comparison, in fact JQ58 has exactly the same climb rate 5 minutes later despite aborting the approach much earlier than Cairns Central.

If its news that a captain did his best to get the passengers to where they wanted to be then so be it, but any criticism of the captain over his flying and safety concerns are clearly undeserved and unfounded based on the evidence at hand to those that were not in the coughpit at the time.

Did I criticise the captain in any way? Looks like more unfounded hysteria from the baying mob.

 

[NYCguy]

Looks like more unfounded hysteria from the baying mob.

Yes, you could characterise the Jetstar passengers reactions to a perfectly safe and normal flight procedure thusly.

 

[Kendall Roy]

I think the biggest issue here is the fact that she has a QP tag attached to her baggage.

Terminate her membership I say :mrgreen:

 

[harvyk]

Now I should precede my comments by stating that I wasn't there, which of course means I probably shouldn't be spouting off like this. But what the heck - it hasn't stopped anyone else!

Technically neither was the woman, she was not in the coughpit, nor did she have access to any equipment which would tell her actual facts.

Gut feelings should not be reported as news, especially when the facts disprove the gut feeling.

But as I said, never let the facts get in the way of a good JQ \ QF bashing story.

 

[Groundfeeder]

I had the wonderful opportunity to fly the B738 Flight Sim at the Gold Coast for an hour this week (birthday prezz ).

Seeking a challenge, I hand-flew the CNS Hendo 3 STAR approach both visually and in IFR turbulence and was surprised how easy it was to bust minimums during IFR, particularly at MM. Now I know most approaches are left to George to sort, but with final approach over CNS city and bouncing about, its no wonder that a TOGA was sought in this instance.

If you are eager, I strongly urge you to sample this Sim (not full motion) as it has current glass coughpit as line aircraft - DO IT (www.737flightsimulator.com.au)