Jetstar plane 'nearly hit' city: passenger

[straitman]

Summing up what a few others have said.

There are two distinct parts to the story. Paula Christ obviously has no idea of aircraft operating procedures and our good friends 'No News' who publish the QF and JQ bashing articles.

 

[harvyk]

Well, they gave her a voice that she wouldn’t have otherwise had. Even though her story wasn’t that accurate.

That's not actually a good thing...

She has come up with a conclusion based on her "gut feeling" whom both the party "responsible" and another party whom watches over the "responsible party" have said is wrong. Sure raise the issue with JQ, but Nonews publishing the article with the title Jetstar plane 'nearly hit' city (remembering that most readers don't really pay attention beyond a title) is irresponsible.

I'd love to see JQ \ QF go up against nonews one day. One of these days nonews will slip up and forget to include the weasel words which gets itself out of trouble.

 

[docjames]

Well, on the day Jestar announe a large expansion and confirm SIN will be their asia hub, with all that entails for connections for Aussies to Europe, the news media report on a flight delay (happens evry day around the world, and to the pax stuck there, if it's that important to be home, have a contingency plan - usually referred to as insurance) and the "near miss" that's called a routine approach follwed by a go-around. I'd love to know how many "go-arounds" there were in Australia that day. I'd estimate about 100 each at Bankstown and Moorabbin to start with!


:evil::evil::evil:

 

[markis10]

Well, on the day Jestar announe a large expansion and confirm SIN will be their asia hub, with all that entails for connections for Aussies to Europe, the news media report on a flight delay (happens evry day around the world, and to the pax stuck there, if it's that important to be home, have a contingency plan - usually referred to as insurance) and the "near miss" that's called a routine approach follwed by a go-around. I'd love to know how many "go-arounds" there were in Australia that day. I'd estimate about 100 each at Bankstown and Moorabbin to start with!


:evil::evil::evil:

OT but the likelyhood of a go round is more likely at a major international airport than at a GA one where both have positive air traffic control in my experience, as a holder of ATC ratings at SYD and Bankstown as well as Camden. Its all to do with the rate things change, with jets thats pretty quick, with PA28s etc you have a lot more thinking time and as a result correction time!

Its coffee and a book time when the weather is bad for most GA airports, not so the pressures of commercial RPT aviation at a large primary field.

 

[NYCguy]

Oh, dear. Perhaps the pax who freaked out had never gone-around before?

There's no story here, other than inexperienced airline passengers for who had never experienced a missed approach or a weather diversion before, and a sleazy, opportunistic beat-up by one of News Corp's lowest-common-denominator tabloids (directing one's browser to ww.cairnspost.com.au will land you at cairns.com.au).

Oh, and I don't like to make personal comments about people who have been exploited, but that's not a flattering photo of Paula. Not flattering at all. If I were her, I'd sue - Murdoch has deep pockets, and he'd probably settle...

 

[turtlemichael]

I find it impossible to believe the aircraft was in danger of hitting any CBD building in Cairns. To hit something in the CBD, the plane would have been several kilometres off course and almost touching down (there are no skyscrapers in Cairns!). Me thinks it's like one of my fishing yarns. Like last Friday, I caught nothing, but by Saturday night I had caught enough fish to feed the entire street.

There are a small number of buildings in the 18+ floor range in Cairns CBD. (Yes, there is a CBD!) I live in oneof those buildings. In certain weather conditions planes fly directly overhead when landing from the south. Without giving this story any credence they are usually a long way above my head.

 

[turtlemichael]

Fair point. I've flown in from the north sometimes, but when the wind is blowing favourably, most aircraft do land from the south.

Overwhelmingly landings are from the north and take-offs to the south turning hard left over the inlet to reduce CBD noise polution. I'd guess it's about one day in 15 that landings are from the south.

 

[Justinf]

Overwhelmingly landings are from the north and take-offs to the south turning hard left over the inlet to reduce CBD noise polution. I'd guess it's about one day in 15 that landings are from the south.

You are right. While sitting at the lagoon plane spotting one day, all aircraft were turning hard left very, very soon after takeoff.

 

[oz_mark]

The passenger is obviously not used to approaches without the aid of a glidescope, RWY33 is localiser with DME only, not full ILS, so the hands on approach is bound to be a tad different!

Presumably the passenger had a bit of sensory illusion. In the absence of other points of reference, a sudden acceleration can feel like you have tilted your head up. So, no doubt the passenger perceived the plane to have quite a climb. Reality would have been a bit different though.

 

[markis10]

He actually did climb pretty quickly, webtrak has the missed approach, just set it to watch from 8.23AM on Australia Day, it almost looks like he went below the published minima according to the radar data

WebTrak: Cairns International Airport

If you have a look at around 8.28 JQ58 also does a missed apprpoach but its much shallower, the PIC actually starts the climb earlier than JQ926.

 

[straitman]

He actually did climb pretty quickly, webtrak has the missed approach, just set it to watch from 8.23AM on Australia Day, it almost looks like he went below the published minima according to the radar data

WebTrak: Cairns International Airport

markis10,

Do you know what approach ha was flying :?: The LOC-Y RWY33 approach has a minima of 730 ft and the LOC-Z RWY33 has a minima of 910 ft and he only went marginally below that one.

 

[hearliam]

Now Iv'e done some calculations and by what Webtrak says there is no way in hell that plane was at 312 m at the time of aborting that landing. Now Apartment Cairns which is opposite Cairns Central, which is in the flight path, give or take a few metres, is roughly 45 m high, now you are telling me that plane was 7 times the height of that building, why would it pull out so violently at such a sharp accent, which was witnessed by my wife. I guess we will never know. Oh I'm getting my windows replaced next week.

 

[markis10]

I dont know what approach he was flying hence the use of the word "almost", the PIC nailed the approach in terms of aborting at the correct DME distance and the climb is fairly quick but I dont blame him for that, I would say the approach by the other company aircraft 5 minutes later was more typical of what people are use to, with the abort further back.

I can see why the customers were a little apprehensive, this was the second approach, however nothing was risky and the vertical separation with terrain was within limits + tolerances at all times.

Must have been interesting living in Cairns CBD that morning, most of the JQ flights aborted at least 1 approach.

 

[anat0l]

Glad to see that there are at least a lot of people commenting on the article which seem to have some common sense.

Landing so close to buildings on the ground that they look pretty big isn't unusual for quite a few places around the world. I guess a go-around would make it a bit scary (and hey, no one really likes it when the plane has to do a very sharp rise for a go-around), but this is standard procedural stuff, not a stuff-around or an attempted terrorist attack. :evil:

 

[markis10]

Now Iv'e done some calculations and by what Webtrak says there is no way in hell that plane was at 312 m at the time of aborting that landing. Now Apartment Cairns which is opposite Cairns Central, which is in the flight path, give or take a few metres, is roughly 45 m high, now you are telling me that plane was 7 times the height of that building, why would it pull out so violently at such a sharp accent, which was witnessed by my wife. I guess we will never know. Oh I'm getting my windows replaced next week.

Webtrak shows him at 850ft (259M) at the moment of abort one the west side of Cairns Central and as Straitman says there are two different minimas depending on the approach, approach minima tolerances allow for the fact that sink rate cannot be instantly reversed and the PIC could have already applied power for the abort and climb.

The PIC made the abort late compared to previous approaches by himself and other aircraft but it was exactly at the decision point indicated on the approach plate, he really did his best to get the customers home without breaking the law or risking their safety.

 

[hearliam]

Well all I can say is, I worked at Cairns airport for 15 years and I saw my fair share of close calls shall we say, and go arounds, but this frightened the hell out of me and my misses, maybe the low cloud cover amplified things a bit, but it definitely got people talking around the town.

 

[anat0l]

Well all I can say is, I worked at Cairns airport for 15 years and I saw my fair share of close calls shall we say, and go arounds, but this frightened the hell out of me and my misses, maybe the low cloud cover amplified things a bit, but it definitely got people talking around the town.

Low cloud will probably do that. It gives the illusion that the plane suddenly appears rather than a gradual progression (and when you do see the plane, it is already quite low).

No one said go-arounds weren't scary, but that is the procedure when the landing conditions aren't good or there is something preventing the aircraft from landing safely. The alternatives are obviously worse.

Now whether the pilot was following a track and conditions weren't ideal, or the pilot wasn't properly lined up on track to land correctly (a bit like someone reverse parking and realising they're about to hit something) which is what caused the go-around is a whole different argument.

Note: I'm not an aviation enthusiast nor expert....

 

[medhead]

, but it definitely got people talking around the town.

Having grown up in Cairns I'd say this is why it made the Cairns Post.

A periodically with higher journalistic standard would be hard to find

BTW I saw a 256m on webtrak just before the 259m, but hey....

 

[NYCguy]

This alleged "incident" may well have gotten the people of Cairns talking, but I doubt very much if it has stopped to swarms of Jetstar 320s that arrive and depart in a daily basis. Presumably all of those aircraft have functioning altimetry equipment, and the same flight-control software that would override the pilots attempts to make a near-vertical ascent out of a missed approach?

Nervous, non-FF passengers, filthy weather and a go-around... Fantastic fodder for tabloid journalism.

 

[straitman]

I'm trying to find the Post about the "near miss in Cairns by the Jetstar plane. So forgive me if I am in the wrong post. Now Iv'e done some calculations and by what Webtrak says there is no way in hell that plane was at 312 m at the time of aborting that landing. Now Apartment Cairns which is opposite Cairns Central, which is in the flight path, give or take a few metres, is roughly 45 m high, now you are telling me that plane was 7 times the height of that building, why would it pull out so violently at such a sharp accent, which was witnessed by my wife. I guess we will never know.

hearliam,

I have taken the liberty of quoting you from the other thread you posted this on.

Webtrak shows the aircraft as low as 256m which is 854ft (what the pilot sees) Depending upon the approach actually flown the minima was, as I pointed out earlier 730 or 910 ft. I would suggest that the pilot made his decision altitude of 910 ft, was not visual and then started his missed approach. During the missed approach he has descended to 854 ft, as allowed before the positive rate of climb occurred.

Low cloud and rapid changes of power and attitude always get peoples attention. What else do you expect the pilot to do other than follow the published procedure :?: