Jetstar malfunction link to Air France Atlantic crash

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Slats7

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Jetstar malfunction link to Air France Atlantic crash | Travel News | News.com.au

A JETSTAR plane may have last week suffered the same malfunction that brought down an Air France jet over the Atlantic, killing all on board, five months ago.

Australia's air safety regulators - the Australian Transport Safety Bureau and the Civil Aviation Safety Authority - are probing similarities between both incidents.

At 1.30am on October 29 the pilot of the Jetstar Airbus 330-200 reported an instrument blackout as the jet carrying 200 passengers passed through storm clouds midway between Japan and the Gold Coast, the Herald Sun reports.
 
The interesting thing is that the pitot tubes involved in the Air France tragedy are made by Thales, and Jetstar's planes use pitot tubes manufactured by Goodrich - so they are not the same type of pitot tubes.

Coincidence? Bigger issue?
 
Personally I will refuse to board that plane until they have identified the problem correctly and fixed it... logical points below...

1. The problem has not been identified.
2. a chance that problem might happen again,
3. if that happen, whether is less than or more than 6 seconds, might crash the plane....
 
The interesting thing is that the pitot tubes involved in the Air France tragedy are made by Thales, and Jetstar's planes use pitot tubes manufactured by Goodrich - so they are not the same type of pitot tubes.

Coincidence? Bigger issue?
notwithstanding the manufacturing differences. I would have thought that a pitot tube is a pitot tube. I'm not sure how you can get different types of pitot tube.

I read this article as pointing to an electronics issue. Sure there was one fluctuating airspeed indicator, but the pitot tube is only the start of that process. Was the equivalent altitude indicator fluctuating as well?
 
There are different reporting styles between fairfax and news.com

from news.com

Jetstar &squo;blackout&squo; link to fatal Air France crash | The Courier-Mail

They mentioned the 6 seconds instrument blackout, which I presume it means lost of all instrument readings ? ["During the six-second blackout, the automatic pilot malfunctioned and fluctuating readings were transmitted by one of the jet's three airspeed indicators"]

from fairfax, a much softer version,

Qantas landing gear incident | Jetstar Airbus air speed indicators problem

["there was a momentary fluctuation in one of three airspeed indicators. Jetstar confirmed the incident today, saying the crew remained "in full control" of the Airbus 330-200 at all times"] ,

during the 6 seconds blackout if pilots did not touch the flight controls, how do they know they have full control during the blackout period ???
 
during the 6 seconds blackout if pilots did not touch the flight controls, how do they know they have full control during the blackout period ???

Perhaps there wasn't a blackout - and given there were supposed to have been 'fluctuating readings' during this time, I suspect there wasn't.
 
during the 6 seconds blackout if pilots did not touch the flight controls, how do they know they have full control during the blackout period ???
Just because the instruments have blacked out it doesn't mean that you can't have control of the aircraft, either. Sure it will make it harder to have control, but it doesn't mean you don't have control.
 
I think the A330 have full glass coughpit ? So an instrument blackout means the whole screen is black ? ...

the A330 is full fly by wire, so there are no mechanical linkages between the flight controls and the ailerons, elevators and rudder etc....unlike the old boeing jets... so in the unlikely case of complete system failure the pilots will have no control...

until the atsb full report comes out we have no idea....

Just because the instruments have blacked out it doesn't mean that you can't have control of the aircraft, either. Sure it will make it harder to have control, but it doesn't mean you don't have control.
 
the A330 is full fly by wire, so there are no mechanical linkages between the flight controls and the ailerons, elevators and rudder etc....

I understand that mechanical linkages do in fact exist on the A330.
 
I think the A330 have full glass coughpit ? So an instrument blackout means the whole screen is black ? ...

the A330 is full fly by wire, so there are no mechanical linkages between the flight controls and the ailerons, elevators and rudder etc....unlike the old boeing jets... so in the unlikely case of complete system failure the pilots will have no control...

until the atsb full report comes out we have no idea....
Sounds reasonable.

But still an instrument blackout doesn't equal a complete system failure.

We'll have to wait to see.....
 
Crossing the Skies Fly-by-wire and Airbus Laws

Yes, under mechanical backup laws (in case of complete computer failure),
the elevator trim and the rudder do have mechanical linkages....

the aim is to keep the plane flying straight and level and give the crew and / or the computer try to fix the problem.

(the pilots must have very strong leg muscles to control the rudder using his/her own power !) :D


I understand that mechanical linkages do in fact exist on the A330.
 
Planes are headed from the old days of a "Flight Engineer" to having an "IT Engineer" on board.

I would hate to be killed by a faulty computer on a plane, I could handle the image of a pilot wrestling and grappling with a big control stick and frantically pushing peddles, but a computer attached to a little 6 inch plastic joy stick no.
 
until the atsb full report comes out we have no idea....

Exactly, but it does seem that when the pilot tubes malfunction the computer doesn't know what to do but malfunction too. Airbus might need to go over their code with a fine tooth comb.
 
Planes are headed from the old days of a "Flight Engineer" to having an "IT Engineer" on board.

I would hate to be killed by a faulty computer on a plane, I could handle the image of a pilot wrestling and grappling with a big control stick and frantically pushing peddles, but a computer attached to a little 6 inch plastic joy stick no.

Just hope they don't have to hit 'CTRL-ALT-DEL' during flight. That would be a bad thing ;)
 
there is no need for a re-boot, I am sure the Undo buttom would do the trick ;)

I do concur with samh004, airspeed readings are likely to fluctuate when flying through turbulances... if the airspeed sensor area malfunction there is a possibility that it sends some "wrong signals" which cause the computer to malfunction....

but I think for Airbus to replicate the exact situation which causes this occurence is not easy....

Just hope they don't have to hit 'CTRL-ALT-DEL' during flight. That would be a bad thing ;)
 
notwithstanding the manufacturing differences. I would have thought that a pitot tube is a pitot tube. I'm not sure how you can get different types of pitot tube.

After the Air France crash, a directive was released by Airbus/EASA (European Safety Authority) that at least 2 of the 3 pitot tubes on an A330/A340 must be changed from Thales BA to Goodrich - due to some irregularities reported with the Thales ones.

So, yes there are obviously risks with certain types.
 
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After the Air France crash, a directive was released by Airbus/EASA (European Safety Authority) that at least 2 of the 3 pitot tubes on an A330/A340 must be changed from Thales BA to Goodrich - due to some irregularities reported with the Thales ones.

So, yes there are obviously risks with certain types.
To be pedantic, that must be problems with certain manufacturers. A pitot tube works by measuring the pressure difference between moving air and the atmosphere (still air). There can only be one type of Pitot Tube, otherwise it isn't a pitot tube. [/pedantic point]

As for the idea of it malfunctioning as mentioned by others. The pitot tube will always show the air pressure difference (unless someone blocks the holes and that is another story). If there are fluctuating readings then there are only two causes in relation to the pitot tube, the pressure difference is fluctuating or the thing attached to the pitot tube that is measuring the pressure difference and turning that into airspeed and altitude is broken.
 
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