Japan Airlines plane in flames at Tokyo's Haneda airport

[Blacksheep]

I found the following tweet last night:

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1742371126695850395

"Contacted by JAL. All luggage destroyed (of course) - they will compensate 200,000 yen. In addition, I am also able to claim my transportation home from yesterday. I am surprised at how quickly they're handling this given what happened yesterday - thought it would take a few months at least. Thank you JAL for this in addition to saving my life."

Probably 200k yen just to get you out of immediate trouble so you can buy a few things. Then claim the rest with travel insurance. Approximately 2k AUD, that would barely cover a decent laptop.

 

[DC3]

Probably 200k yen just to get you out of immediate trouble so you can buy a few things. Then claim the rest with travel insurance. Approximately 2k AUD, that would barely cover a decent laptop.

Travel insurance is the way to go

 

[Himeno]

Well known ex-QF captain being interviewed by ABC24 re accident

which well known ex-QF captain? ;P (I know of at least 2...)

 

[AIRwin]

which well known ex-QF captain? ;P (I know of at least 2...)

Richard de Crespigny?

 

[Brissy1]

The Japanese legal system (like the French) sadly inserts itself into accident investigation...

They've started; from the ABC "Meanwhile, Tokyo police are investigating.."

1st thing in a crisis, find someone to blame.

 

[BAM1748]

They've started; from the ABC "Meanwhile, Tokyo police are investigating.."

1st thing in a crisis, find someone to blame.

Yes, Japanese prosecutors they have a 99% conviction rate don't they? The poor sod piloting the Dash8 is in the hot seat.

 

[flyer89]

And the issued instruction, was "taxi to holding point C5". And that was read back. Totally clear.

And no further communication was made. Why did the CPT believe he had takeoff clearance and why did the FO at no point question him? (and if he did, wasn’t listened to). This has strong Tenerife vibes.

 

[Himeno]

And no further communication was made. Why did the CPT believe he had takeoff clearance and why did the FO at no point question him? (and if he did, wasn’t listened to). This has strong Tenerife vibes.

and that's all we'll know until the black box is analysed.

 

[DC3]

And no further communication was made. Why did the CPT believe he had takeoff clearance and why did the FO at no point question him? (and if he did, wasn’t listened to). This has strong Tenerife vibes.

I doubt that anyone here can answer those questions.

Patience Grasshopper

 

[dajop]

and that's all we'll know until the black box is analysed.

It's 2024, the views of uninformed people with tidbits of evidence are far far more important than the views of experts. That's how the world runs now, so let people assert their opinions, they are always right

On a less sarcastic note, you make a great point ... there are probably a number of explanations that may or may not become clearer when the black box is reviewed.

 

[Happy Trails]

Do we know if the Coastguard aircraft had a black box?

 

[Himeno]

Do we know if the Coastguard aircraft had a black box?

They recovered the dash 8 black box yesterday

Black box of Japan Coast Guard plane recovered, says investigator | NHK WORLD-JAPAN News

An investigator with the Japan Transport Safety Board says officials have recovered the black box of the Japan Coast Guard plane that collided on Tuesday with a Japan Airlines aircraft at Tokyo's Haneda Airport.

www3.nhk.or.jp

 

[Quickstatus]

Human error is rife with similar.

Press wrong button
Pull wrong lever
Announce an action but a different action occurs
An alarm is flashing or concerning information comes up on screen but don't see it even if looking at a screen.
Press accelerator instead of the brake

Remember the Kathmandu ATR crash. Instead of moving the flaps lever the pilot monitoring moved the power setting causing feathering of propellor. The levers are slightly different but adjacent. How is it possible an experienced pilot can mistake one for the other?.
Not the first time this has happened in aviation.

Seems impossible to the armchair observer but it is not unusual unfortunately.

Human error does not occur for no reason. There are usually recognisable preconditions for human error. There are 12 big ones. As the crash investigation is ongoing, I ascribe none of these to anyone in this incident:

Lack of communication
Distraction
Lack of resources/backup
Stress - physical/psychological
Complacency
Lack of teamwork
Pressure - internal (personal) or external
Lack of situational awareness
Lack of knowledge
Fatigue
Lack of assertiveness
Effect of Norms - workplace practices, culture

 

[MARTINE]

Human error is rife with similar.

Press wrong button
Pull wrong lever
Announce an action but a different action occurs
An alarm is flashing or concerning information comes up on screen but don't see it even if looking at a screen.
Press accelerator instead of the brake

Remember the Kathmandu ATR crash. Instead of moving the flaps lever the pilot monitoring moved the power setting causing feathering of propellor. The levers are slightly different but adjacent. Why could an experienced pilot mistake one for the other?.
Not the first time this has happened in aviation.

Seems impossible to the armchair observer but it is not unusual unfortunately.

Human error does not occur for no reason. There are usually recognisable preconditions. There are 12 big ones. As the crash investigation is ongoing, I ascribe none of these to anyone in this incident:

Lack of communication
Distraction
Lack of resources/backup
Stress - physical/psychological
Complacency
Lack of teamwork
Pressure - internal (personal) or external
Lack of situational awareness
Lack of knowledge
Fatigue
Lack of assertiveness
Effect of Norms - workplace practices, culture

… coughpit gradient…

 

[elanshin]

Human error is rife with similar.

Press wrong button
Pull wrong lever
Announce an action but a different action occurs
An alarm is flashing or concerning information comes up on screen but don't see it even if looking at a screen.
Press accelerator instead of the brake

Remember the Kathmandu ATR crash. Instead of moving the flaps lever the pilot monitoring moved the power setting causing feathering of propellor. The levers are slightly different but adjacent. Why could an experienced pilot mistake one for the other?.
Not the first time this has happened in aviation.

Seems impossible to the armchair observer but it is not unusual unfortunately.

Human error does not occur for no reason. There are usually recognisable preconditions. There are 12 big ones. As the crash investigation is ongoing, I ascribe none of these to anyone in this incident:

Lack of communication
Distraction
Lack of resources/backup
Stress - physical/psychological
Complacency
Lack of teamwork
Pressure - internal (personal) or external
Lack of situational awareness
Lack of knowledge
Fatigue
Lack of assertiveness
Effect of Norms - workplace practices, culture

And given what the coast guard's mission was flying urgent aid up to disaster zone that is still considered in critical recovery phase. There is probably a lot of other factors added in (fatigue, stresss, ) etc.

 

[drron]

No, it said he maintains that he thought he had permission to take off.

Big difference.

But the direct quote from the article posted by Airwin is this.

But while the transcript appears to show the Coast Guard plane was only given permission to taxi, Japan's NHK television reported that the smaller plane's captain, the only member of the Coast Guard crew to survive, maintained he was given permission to take off.

 

[leadman]

Photo's from yesterday at Keikyu Kemata Station around 8am. Sorry about the shots, not great, but my daughter noticed it just as the train was coming from the city. It was mostly steam with a bit of other mixed in. (After working in smelters for 45 years, you quickly learn how to distinguish "steam/water vapour v dust/fume v SO2" from emissions). By the time we got back it was all clear and nothing today.

 

[moa999]

given what the coast guard's mission was flying urgent aid up to disaster zone that is still considered in critical recovery phase. There is probably a lot of other factors added in (fatigue, stresss, ) etc.

Plus how much currency they had in actual night operations, versus only daytime training flights.

 

[TheRealTMA]

But the direct quote from the article posted by Airwin is this.

Why do people have to speculate with insufficient evidence! The pilot can “say” he had clearance but there’s no evidence to support this view so far. The final black box recordings from the aircraft and tower recordings will resolve the issue. Ill-informed quotes from sensational news outlets craving ratings won’t. AFF arguing won’t.

 

[elanshin]

As more information unfold, one thing that may get scrutinized is JL's procedures. It's reported that it was 18minutes before all passengers were evacuated. I'm sure there had to be processes and procedures to follow, but this does seem like a lengthy period of time when you could see the engines already burning while the plane was rolling on the runway to a stop.

I wonder if this should have been a faster procedure where every second and minute counted.