Is their Word ever their Bond???

[banger2]

I didnt want to comment on all the "legal" stuff, however I wanted to give my support to johnomg, from an "customer service" point of view. I think from the information provided, the TA has provided, at best, very poor customer service. The TA would full well know the financial and availibility impacts of altering part of this ticket to the customer, but appears not to have bothered to give any information other than a technically correct answer of "yes" and vague "subject to availibility". I would also add the lack of concern whether the customer had actually read the T&C even though it was signed, when clearly the chance of the ticket being changed was high, resulting in issues concerning fare change/fees and availibility...again shows poor service and a lack of concern for the customer.
In my work in finance, I could answer a similar question in a similar way. But I know, if I simply answered yes, I am neither providing a totally honest and correct answer and overview of the question asked, nor good customer service.
Good luck with your efforts!
Ash

 

[dajop]

I would also add the lack of concern whether the customer had actually read the T&C even though it was signed, when clearly the chance of the ticket being changed was high, resulting in issues concerning fare change/fees and availibility...again shows poor service and a lack of concern for the customer.

This is a good point. Even to those who religiously check T&C (and fare rules if they are listed) , they are obviously silent on likelihood of being to able to change (and are almost impossible to understand in some instances). To the uninformed, this is where the experience and service of a travel agent come in handy.

Of course those of who aren't TA's but are in the "know" (access AFF, expert flyer and the like) are fully aware that the likelihood of changing an O class on MEL-SYD to early Fri evening is negligible (or a low fare LHR-Aust with a few weeks notice in high season, where lots of travellers are returning from European holidays). You don't get that knowledge by reading the T&C - but a good TA should know that and indicate it upfront.

 

[Cyclogenesis]

Also not being a legal type but having an idea of some of the ins-and-outs of contracts a contract signed in "bad faith" can be questioned... for example:
Customer:"So these T&Cs I am about to sign, can I change my flights at no cost later?"
TA:"Yes... just sign"
etc etc... if you can prove (and there is the hard part!) that it was not signed in good faith the contract can be nullified...

Let me get this right, the TA booked you into an O class flight and gave you the impression it was flexible and easy to change??? If so that is a joke and IMHO down outright misleading!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Let me get this right, the TA booked you into an O class flight and gave you the impression it was flexible and easy to change??? If so that is a joke and IMHO down outright misleading!

haha - no - I think the O class something I made up as an example. I was responding to dave N and saying that 'subject to availability' would mean two different things if you were sold a full Y class or an O class ticket (and hence my argument that travel agents should spell this out).

mel-t

 

[NM]

Customer:"So these T&Cs I am about to sign, can I change my flights at no cost later?"

I think there lies the problem. The OP asked if they could change the flights, and did not add the last part of your quote.

Its a matter of asking the right questions.

A true answer to "can I change the flights?" is "yes".

A true answer to "will there be a charge to change the flights?" is "yes".

A true answer to "will any change be subject to availability in the heavily discounted fare class?" is "yes"

While I would expect any decent travel agent to supplement the answer to the first question with information about the costs and availability situation, it does not make the answer to the first question incorrect. Maybe one could argue the answer to the first question was incomplete if the customer did not follow up with questions 2 and 3.

 

[anat0l]

I think there lies the problem. The OP asked if they could change the flights, and did not add the last part of your quote.

Its a matter of asking the right questions.

A true answer to "can I change the flights?" is "yes".

A true answer to "will there be a charge to change the flights?" is "yes".

A true answer to "will any change be subject to availability in the heavily discounted fare class?" is "yes"

While I would expect any decent travel agent to supplement the answer to the first question with information about the costs and availability situation, it does not make the answer to the first question incorrect. Maybe one could argue the answer to the first question was incomplete if the customer did not follow up with questions 2 and 3.

Very sticky situation at best - on both sides of the fence.

Any flight can be "changed" (with some exceptions within the 24 hours before departure). How much you will be penalised (if at all) depends on the ticket. And here in lies the difficulty.

In another thought, it is conceivable, although unlikely, that even if the OP was sold a "flexible" fare, the change may result in a substantial cost as shown. I say that this is very unlikely because this would imply that the flight chosen was very full, there were only high-cost bucket seats left and/or seats only available in the next class of service.

On another note, for special fares reserved for compassionate reasoned travel, what are the usual remarks about such fares (according to the experience of people here who might have purchased them before), e.g. must be booked with 24 hrs? Fare conditions (flexible/inflexible)? Non-refundable? Expensive or cheap-bucket? etc. etc.

 

[harvyk]

The lack of information from the TA is the actual problem.

Now I'd have thought the advantage of a TA would be to provide additional pieces of information, considering that for just purchasing tickets that can be done by anyone with internet access.

That said a few years back when Mrs harvyk went across to the US, her TA didn't know (or forgot to tell her) some vital pieces of information, which meant that she missed out on some of the attactions she actually wanted to see.

It all boils down to the fact that it's the individual TA you need to find, not the company who employs them. My current TA who is leaving in two months if he was simply going to another agency (He's not, he's doing 6 months of travelling) I'd follow him there, as he has always done a good job, and I don't know if the others at the agency are quite as good.

 

[Zardoz]

I think the TA has performed very poorly here but, while obviously stressed and the purchase rushed, it would be interesting to know if different fares were discussed/offered prior to finalising the booking. Were the various fares vs. conditions explored?

But agree with NM about asking the right questions and, notwithstanding inexperience, if a matter is really important to a customer, then some responsibility falls to them to find out all the details about it. Perhaps inexperience should even dictate that “subject to availability” be pursued further to clarify it’s full meaning. Naturally, the more service-oriented a TA is, the less of this burden falls on the customer.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As an example I have copied the relevant sections of the Victorian Fair Trading Act. All states have similar legislation.

Fitness of goods for purpose

32IA. Fitness of goods for purpose

(1) If, in a contract of supply of goods by a supplier who supplies the goods in the course of a business, the purchaser expressly or by implication-

(a) makes known to the supplier; or

(b) in the course of any antecedent negotiations, makes known to a dealer or to a person acting on behalf of the supplier-

the particular purpose for which the goods are required, there is an implied condition that the goods are reasonably fit for that purpose.

(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the circumstances show that the purchaser
does not rely, or that it is unreasonable for the purchaser to rely, on the
skill or judgment of the supplier, dealer or other person.
​

Antecedent negotiations are defined:

32BA. What are antecedent negotiations?


(1) In this Part a reference to antecedent negotiations in relation to a contract of supply of goods or services is a reference to any negotiations or arrangements conducted or made with the purchaser by a person-

(a) by which the purchaser was induced to enter into the contract with the supplier; or

(b) which otherwise promoted the making of the contract.

(2) In this Part a reference to a person by whom any antecedent negotiations are conducted is a reference to a person by whom the negotiations or arrangements concerned are conducted or made.

​

But companies are not simply going to give in without a fight. If it means that much to the OP then he should pursue the matter through a state tribunal.

 

[harvyk]

MEL_Traveller,

The problem with this is that the product was fit for the purpose. It was an airfare which would take the OP from A to B, and it could be rescheduled if required.

Having successfully returned something under "Fit for purpose" rules it needs to be the case where

a. The product was recommended by the sales person
b. The product could not under any circumstances be used for the purposes of which it was sold.

In my case it was because the device was missing a specific feature which the sales person thought the device had, and as it was a feature, which I asked for by name, the store had no choice but to accept the return.

Unfortuantly for the OP, the product was fit for the purposes of which it was sold. As it was both a seat on a flight to the UK and it could be changed, FC are in the clear from that perspective. The only way this would work for the OP is if the fares can not be cancelled or changed in any way shape or form, however because they can (albeit limited) FC is still in the clear.

The problem is that it was not the best product available on the market for what the OP required.

The best way I can think that the OP could move forwards is by placing a complaint into FC corporate about the specific TA and Branch Manager, stating the facts, and stating that their agent sold them a product which was not the most suitible product available.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

harvyk - perhaps the law is slightly different in CBR? It would be interesting to compare.

However - for cases in Victoria - and I know some (all?) other states are similar, your summation is incorrect at law.

Part 2A of the Vic code is quite clear - it has to be fit for the purpose brought to the attention of the sales person. If that means a flexible ticket around the funeral, then that's what should have been provided, or options of cost/availability discussed.

Yes the ticket gets you from A to B, but during the course of discussions prior to the sale, other requirements may have been made known (antecedent discussions which I also copied the section of the act).

If these were made known, then they must also be in the product sold. I say 'may' only because we weren't there with the OP and the TA... there will be two sidfes to the story... but if the OP is recounting factually then there would be a case.)

Did the OP say where he was from?

 

[johnomg]

G'day All ... inside I'm really like this :evil:

A short post, some "Life Things" have happened (and maybe 1 flight thing ), because of that I don't have enough time to respond fully to this Thread. I just wanted to let you all know I haven't run away and will post again in a day or two.

Also, I wanted to quickly Thank Everyone for their input, opinions, support, commiserations and advice. It's been interesting reading the differing views of experienced travellers/consumers (even the ones that don't agree with me).

Thanks
John ... still like this inside :evil:

P.S.
I'm in Adelaide, South Australia.

 

[johnomg]

Hi everyone,

I'm going to be gone for a few weeks, major issues have arisen that are more important than my beef with flight centre.

FYI, the wife is on her way home, not without headaches at check-in etc... be seeing her in 16hrs hopefully.

Thanks again to everyone and sorry I've had to abruptly stop posting.

John

 

[mayhemdiva]

I get no pleasure from seeing someone else bent over as I have been by them...they refuse to give me a breakdown of my ticket cost ie tax component and their fee and I have managed to recoup $600 back from $1306..the rest has gone in 'fees and charges"..I never got the specifics on my type of flight conditions..not even small print..and as previously reported I was the one who told my TA that the flights were changeable for a small fee (40 euros)
It keeps me awake at night...
But I have learnt my lesson..I love this forum..I have built the proverbial bridge and will cross over..