Is it time to stop whining about LCC's?

[drewbles]

Ever been on a 388 in Y? It's not pleasant.

Ever been on an LX A340 in Y? It's worse than hell!

I just did 27 hours in Y on an A380, and those that know me would know that's not a place for someone of my stature to be sitting, and I coped just fine!

 

[drron]

Not really, you most certainly have different levels of Y... Give me a Y seat on a B747 or A380 with AVOD, meals, drinks and decent (by Y standards) legroom and width over a Y seat on a Dash 8, being operated by an LCC called "sit down, shut up, and amputate your legs on boarding" airlines. Both are technically Y, but are worlds apart to how you feel at the end of the flight.

Actually I am usually more satisfied after my Dash8 sectors than some others in J on larger planes and certainly in Y on 737s,767s etc.
Reason-the Dash 8 sector i travel on is not long,travel it regularly so know a few of the FAs and always get a snack,like the premium hand carry and ease of boarding and deplaning.

 

[RailFlyer]

An interesting thread and something I have become interested in of late. I think where LCCs become relevant to business travel is for short flights. I am currently based in Auckland and normally fly a lot to SYD/MEL and normally only consider QF so I can get lounge access, QFF points/SC etc. However of late I have had to fly to WLG quite a bit. Here Jetstar's pricing is just too good to ignore. For example (I promise, a random sample - check for yourself on another date) take flights to WLG next Tuesday leaving about 7am and returning about 3pm. The cheapest flights available on AirNZ are NZ$428, whereas the same times on Jetstar are NZ$157 return including the Plus bundle ($17 each way) which makes them pretty flexible and earning QFF SCs.

I've done this return trip 3 times so far this year this way and found:
- Price difference is always AT LEAST this much
- I have always paid another $10 each way to select seat 1F with middle seat never being occupied.
- Only (average) 5 people per flight seem to want to pay the extra for the select seating at the front of the plane it has a feel of old Virgin Blue PE cabin.
- Planes are always super clean and look new
- Crews are always friendly.
- When I take luggage it costs extra ($10?) but comes out at the other end promptly.
- Nearly all flights have arrived early. None late.

The further two things I have loved are:
- When I flew on AirNZ in previous trips to WLG I have always been squeezed in with rarely a spare seat next to me.
- I needed to change one of my flights at 8pm on evening before a flight the next morning. I could change it easily online and it only cost me $3 extra fare difference. Pretty good given I had only added the bundle to get the SCs!

Fortunately my employer/boss are flexible enought that if Jetstar did mess me about they would not mind me going to AirNZ desk with my corporate credit card and spending what it takes to get me home, so I am not really worried about the LCC horror stories either.

Are Jetstar flights in Australia as underpopulated and reliable as this? If we win a major contract in WLG I will be flying once a month so will continue to report back on whether my strategy works in the long run.

I still note Jetstar flights in my diary as "Deathstar" flights, but maybe I should change that? I'll reserve judgement until they fly me into WLG on a really windy day!

 

[harvyk]

Actually I am usually more satisfied after my Dash8 sectors than some others in J on larger planes and certainly in Y on 737s,767s etc.
Reason-the Dash 8 sector i travel on is not long,travel it regularly so know a few of the FAs and always get a snack,like the premium hand carry and ease of boarding and deplaning.

I should have removed the comma, it was meant to say "dash 8 been operated by an LCC"... I wasn't exactly putting a slur on the type as a whole (although I am not a big fan of them), it was more the myth that Y is Y is Y....

 

[UP4014]

To answer the subject line.

No, it's never time to stop complaining about LCCs. (Some people here complain about the wrong juice in the airline lounge!)

Matt

 

[burmans]

Some people here complain about the wrong juice in the airline lounge!

Some people see the main point of AFF's existance is to allow them to complain about things like this.

 

[drron]

Some people see the main point of AFF's existance is to allow them to complain about things like this.

So next year I will have a NY resolution that I must complain more.

 

[Archphoto]

There are LCC's and there are LCC's.

I flew Aegean a few times and find their service quite good. I think their on time performance is quite OK as well but on one return trip both of my flights were cancelled and would not allow me on the eralier making me wait ~3 hours at the airport. But that could be just me.

I was pleasantly surprised with Air Asia in Thailand and I am about to try Bangkok Airways as well. I don't expect much with either considering a BKK-CNX return flight is ~AUD140 return.

Did someone say Jetstar has good looking flight attendants? Single?

BKK Airways isn't all bad - at least you get served a meal (ok it's a sandwich normally) and water on the flight. They also have "lounge access" to all - can be a bit crowded at times, but I'd fly with them anyday over J*. (And if you're flying to Koh Samui, you don't have *any* other choice. . . . . . )

 

[ozbeachbabe]

But you don't hear Walmart customers whining about how they're not getting Nordstrom-level service.

Love the above quote in the article. Clearly they haven't seen the JQ FB page as you see that all the time.

 

[JohnK]

Ever been on an LX A340 in Y? It's worse than hell!

That would be me.

Luckily it was only a BKK-SIN flight as the AY flight was cancelled and they put me on an LX flight. From memory seating is 3x4x3?

I just did 27 hours in Y on an A380, and those that know me would know that's not a place for someone of my stature to be sitting, and I coped just fine!

Qantas? I wonder if you would say/feel the same thing on an Ryanair A380! Yes I know it is not quite there yet but the potential to butcher it still exists....

 

[drewbles]

That would be me.

Luckily it was only a BKK-SIN flight as the AY flight was cancelled and they put me on an LX flight. From memory seating is 3x4x3?

Yup. And they have 'double width' arm rests (that don't fold all the way up, they sort of sit at 45º). It was the worst flight in living memory and that was ZRH-SFO!

Qantas? I wonder if you would say/feel the same thing on an Ryanair A380! Yes I know it is not quite there yet but the potential to butcher it still exists....

Yup. QF. It's tolerable, just. The leg room is not bad, and I had an empty seat next to me the whole way, which makes it just perfect for me).

 

[Deleted member]

Completely agree with this article.

Fly Tiger - expect delays and cancelations
Fly Scoot - experience what it's like to be a sardine
Fly Jetstar - expect good looking flight attendants

If you are paying $140 to fly with Scoot from Sydney to Singapore then I would just be grateful that they are even providing seat-belts on the plane.

Or a seat even

 

[Deleted member]

I don't / wont use them , so can't complain

 

[eastwest101]

... The cheapest flights available on AirNZ are NZ$428, whereas the same times on Jetstar are NZ$157 return including the Plus bundle ($17 each way) which makes them pretty flexible and earning QFF SCs.


The further two things I have loved are:
- When I flew on AirNZ in previous trips to WLG I have always been squeezed in with rarely a spare seat next to me.
- I needed to change one of my flights at 8pm on evening before a flight the next morning. I could change it easily online and it only cost me $3 extra fare difference. Pretty good given I had only added the bundle to get the SCs!

Fortunately my employer/boss are flexible enought that if Jetstar did mess me about they would not mind me going to AirNZ desk with my corporate credit card and spending what it takes to get me home, so I am not really worried about the LCC horror stories either.

Are Jetstar flights in Australia as underpopulated and reliable as this? If we win a major contract in WLG I will be flying once a month so will continue to report back on whether my strategy works in the long run.

Just goes to show that ones persons perception of a LCC can be very different to anothers, even when the product (A320) and crew are almost interchangeable. Its always interesting hearing about different carriers and markets and thanks for your insights into your own decision making in NZ about whom to fly with.

In answer to your question RailFlyer - yes - the JQ we seen in Australia can be quite different to the JQ you are seeing in NZ. I think the reason for this is that JQ NZ is throwing a lot of capacity into the NZ market, which isn't going gangbusters anyway, and they only have to compete against one legacy carrier (Air New Zealand) so you are seeing a LCC possibly operating at a loss to gain market share.

Here in Australia JQd have two or even three real competitors (QF, VA & TT) but the airline market may be a bit stronger in Australia, so load factors are typically higher, fares are often higher as well (unless its in a real competative blood bath like SYD-OOL), I would still say that Australia is more capacity constrained/restricted than NZ, but maybe others may have more data to support or reject this.

As you know, Qantas have also "Jetstarized" a lot of routes in Australia which then seems to result in a lot of routes where JQ compete with VA only. This can result in a LCC JQd product and service but with real world airfares that don't reflect the LCC base costs. Add onto that, the marketing success of JQ, that a lot of un-informed people often assume that JQ is the cheapest way to get from A to B, and don't look elsewhere, many posters here have commented that when you actually get to the "business end" of booking a JQ flight (with all the bundles and baggage and food etc) plus the risk of mis-connects and poor service recovery if a plane breaks down - the price is often not that competetive or compelling if you know where else to look.

My question to you is that if the fare difference wasn't so much, and the JQ planes were a lot more full, would you still choose JQ over NZ? And what do you think would happen to airfares if NZ completely exited from the routes that you fly?

My short answer to the question is: I will not whine about LCC's either, provided that the LCC actually is a lower cost and can compete fairly and freely with other LCCs and full service carriers.

 

[Awesom Andy]

I found Scoot to be very uncomfortable, to the point where I threw away the return ticket and used another airline's miles to go home.

Jetstar has a few good looking FAs, if you happen to get the SIN-based crew. And on some occasions when you go on the A330, and get the Japanese FAs...

 

[RailFlyer]

My question to you is that if the fare difference wasn't so much, and the JQ planes were a lot more full, would you still choose JQ over NZ? And what do you think would happen to airfares if NZ completely exited from the routes that you fly?

My short answer to the question is: I will not whine about LCC's either, provided that the LCC actually is a lower cost and can compete fairly and freely with other LCCs and full service carriers.

I think you have highlighted the point that I was trying to make but forgot to as I got carried away 'telling the story'. I agree that LCC's should be used when you can make them work for you. I believe I have found the best solution for NZ AKD-WLG trips, at the moment. I guess I am just surprised that others haven't also, but I am not complaining as it gives me the space I like! Will be interesting to see how long JQ keep the low prices and relatively high frequency (their frequency definitely went up with DJ pulled out of NZ domestic a year or two ago). Interestingly I had similar if not quite as good experience using the DJ domestic service in NZ when I first arrived here in 2009... until it folded. So you are probably right - make hay while the sun shines!

Given what I have read here and other places I never considered JQ when I did a lot of Australian east coast travel. I found DJ to be fine for those flights, but given I had status with Qantas and wanted the QFF points and status for international trips the $20 saving per flight wasn't worth it in my opinion so I always flew QF.

I was a student in the UK when the whole Easyjet and Ryanair boom was kicking off. It was amazing. I travelled all over the UK and Europe and would never pay more than 5GBP+tax for any flight (I was a student - missing the 1GBP fares was depressing!). So I guess I don't hold any irrational fears of LCCs but given I now like the finer things in life I would avoid them for long haul if I had any way to find money to do so (which luckily I do!)

 

[whatmeworry]

Did someone say Jetstar has good looking flight attendants? Single?

You can find some on RSVP...

 

[vitagen]

JQ flightys are pretty cute i find the best ones on Emirates!!! Pity their ground staff are pretty ave.

 

[JohnK]

You can find some on RSVP...

Dating site?

I have not had any luck there either unfortunately. Doomed to be single I am afraid....

 

[seanpodge]

To answer the subject line.

No, it's never time to stop complaining about LCCs. (Some people here complain about the wrong juice in the airline lounge!)

Matt

Well, I think that the lack of peach juice in lounges is very disappointing........