Inappropriate Pat down for Breast Prosthesis

[lakeman]

In light of poor Drrons run-ins with Airport screening and my own frequent calling aside with my ACL screw in my knee ,I was horrified to read this article.

Sue was preparing for a routine flight, but a run-in with airport security left her deeply distressed

For many Australians, airport security is a minor inconvenience. But for cancer survivors like Sue Watkins, it has become a deeply personal ordeal.

www.abc.net.au

How degrading !
Surely there must be a more courteous way of managing these false positive alarms.

 

[drron]

Wow that's far worse than anything I've had to go through. Even the strip search at LHR was not as degrading as that

 

[Cossie]

Absolutely appalling, surely there has too be a better way of doing things.

 

[AustSerbKor]

I understand my views on airport security may not align with the majority, however, I believe it has gone too far in the attempt to provide an illusion of safety.
However, if we have to have security, airports should at least install adequate scanners instead of the cheapest they could buy. It's the least they could do given we are being charged for security on each ticket. As a larger person, I get a pat down everytime I go through one of the new scanners so it isn't only prosthetics they can't differentiate.

 

[Pushka]

I understand my views on airport security may not align with the majority, however, I believe it has gone too far in the attempt to provide an illusion of safety.
However, if we have to have security, airports should at least install adequate scanners instead of the cheapest they could buy. It's the least they could do given we are being charged for security on each ticket. As a larger person, I get a pat down everytime I go through one of the new scanners so it isn't only prosthetics they can't differentiate.

I'm a thin person but all the scanners pretty much 'around the world' throw multiple red dots on my right hip, back and neck. Pockets are always empty. So I get the entire pat down. In Adelaide the woman said she'd never seen so many red dots. Ridiculous. It's their machines. Bet they miss true risk things trying to find the unicorn on people like me. And everyone else.

 

[BAM1748]

I'm a thin person but all the scanners pretty much 'around the world' throw multiple red dots on my right hip, back and neck. Pockets are always empty. So I get the entire pat down. In Adelaide the woman said she'd never seen so many red dots. Ridiculous. It's their machines. Bet they miss true risk things trying to find the unicorn on people like me. And everyone else.

Of my regular airports, that's more than once per month, Adelaide to me is a shocker when it comes to security and the staff approach and attitude to engaging with passengers.

 

[Pushka]

Of my regular airports, that's more than once per month, Adelaide is a shocker when it comes to security and the staff approach and attitude to engaging with passengers.

They've moved from umbrellas, as it's sunny, to kindles now.

 

[Vic]

The experience for the breast cancer survivor must be horrible.

So many comments.
Firstly, a knee prosthetics is not comparable to breast prosthetic. The knee should only be an issue in a metal detector. The full body scanners cannot see inside the body. So they are actually better for people with metal implants.

The full body scanners do not pick on individual people to always highlight the same part of their body. The Australian scanners are using microwaves to map the body. This process is entirely about image reconstruction using software, so it is going to depend on assumptions about thickness of clothes, and other factors that will prevent transmission (through clothes) or reflection (from tissue) of the microwaves.
AI then processes the images and highlights unusual things.
In my situation, I often get picked up with highlights on my back. This has always been sweat. The water in my shirt means more microwaves are absorbed, and therefore the picture looks dodgy. Of course, this is a trivial experience for me compared to a breast cancer survivor. But I do tell the security person they have to touch my sweaty back now...

I can only guess the breast prosthetics is not tissue equivalent material, because that would make them pretty heavy to wear. Otherwise, the surface doesn't have the same reflective properties as skin.
This might be a good student project at work.

 

[Quickstatus]

can only guess the breast prosthetics is not tissue equivalent material, because that would make them pretty heavy to wear

No these prosthetics are made of silicone and have a density of about 1.3 - 1.5 g/cm3. Whereas the human body is only slightly heavier that of water (which is 1g/cm3) at around 1.05-1.08g/cm3

 

[Vic]

No these prosthetics are made of silicone and have a density of about 1.3 - 1.5 g/cm3. Whereas the human body is only slightly heavier that of water (which is 1g/cm3) at around 1.05-1.08g/cm3

Ta.
It must be the reflective properties of the silicon, or something? The slightly higher density? Just trying to think what would make it appear as a non-contiguous surface.
I wonder if I can get a university to do a third year project or something...

 

[TheRealTMA]

No these prosthetics are made of silicone and have a density of about 1.3 - 1.5 g/cm3. Whereas the human body is only slightly heavier that of water (which is 1g/cm3) at around 1.05-1.08g/cm3

But what’s the density of Semtex?

 

[Quickstatus]

But what’s the density of Semtex?

Actually same as silicone prosthesis

 

[Quickstatus]

It must be

No

MM wave technology uses (IIRC) 30Ghz EM wave which penetrates clothing but does not penetrate more than 1-2mm of the skin surface.

It has emitters and detectors. The detectors pick up reflected signals. Likely the silicone prostheses absorbs/reflects MM waves slightly differently than skin which the detector picks up as a differential to that expected if it were skin. Whether more or less reflective I don’t know

The tech and the algorithms are proprietary.

 

[Vic]

No YES

MM wave technology uses (IIRC) 30Ghz EM wave which penetrates clothing but does not penetrate more than 1-2mm of the skin surface.

It has emitters and detectors. The detectors pick up reflected signals. Likely the silicone prostheses absorbs/reflects MM waves slightly differently than skin which the detector picks up as a differential to that expected by if it were skin. Whether more or less reflective I don’t know

The tech and the algorithms are proprietary.

Which is exactly what I said...

It must be the reflective properties of the silicon, or something?

The reflective properties of the silicone - that include absorbing/reflecting slightly differently

You only quoted "It must be" from my post, did you stop reading there? Maybe if you read the entire sentence, you woouldn't need to do the mansplaining...

Plus you do realise that absorption of MW is related to density of the material? Right? You got that basic physics locked away?

Honestly, so rude...

I've fixed your post for you.

BTW finding a prosthetic material that looks like skin can be undertaken independently of the tech and algorithms of MW scanners.

 

[Quickstatus]

Hmm…overreacting comes to mind.

When I quote, I try to abbreviate it. Don’t need to read too much into it. And it does not mean I didn’t read it because that would be absurd. I obviously read it to be able to reply to your post.


I also say “No” because even though I think it’s a reflectivity differential, because the tech and processing algorithm are proprietary I have not been able to really say how it really works, other than there are emitters and detectors.

absorption of MW is related to density of the material?

I not so sure about that…there are many factors involved including wavelength of the EM wave, incident angle, temperature, type of material independent of density, My understanding does not extend to this

You only quoted "It must be" from my post, did you stop reading there?

Here is an example where I sometimes abbreviate my quotes: