I'm over Qantas FF - Is there a better value program for an Oz Resident?

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

Zone 9 to Zone 12 in J is 95,000 one way. 15% online discount takes that down to 161,500 points for the return trip.
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Lol easy tiger, no need for personal attacks.

I may have been mistaken but I still think that 161,500 is more than just a touch less than 256,000 and I still maintain that no QF redemptions are 'extremely good value'.
But yeh take it easy no need to get fired up we are all mates here

 

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

On discount economy to europe sq awards 2000 miles. Qantas awards 20000. Your comparison now makes qantas look at least 5 times more generous

Are you talking about earn rates ?
If so then yes you're talking about the cheaper fares that earn 10% KF miles yeh ?
Well I've even seen some specials in discount economy where sq awards zero miles, so I suppose that makes QF infinitely more generous lol.

The above discussion was talking about burn rates. Like I've said in an earlier points, its very easy to earn points with QF which is why many still stay with it. Sort of makes up for the abysmal burn rates.

 

[Aussie_flyer]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

On discount economy to europe sq awards 2000 miles. Qantas awards 20000. Your comparison now makes qantas look at least 5 times more generous

Or 40000 as platinum. You are not looking at the bigger picture nizar

 

[k3nnis]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

The awards I find good value for QF are the oneworld 280k in J and domestic awards.

 

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

Or 40000 as platinum. You are not looking at the bigger picture nizar

I know what you're saying. You have to look at both sides of the equation. If QFF points are easier to earn through CC spend and through flying then even if their burn rates aren't the best, overall it's still in our favour as the greater earning power more than compensates for the poor burn rates.

It really depends on how much of that earning you could transfer to another program, which means its specific to your own circumstances.

For example if you accumulate through spend/flying etc about 500k QFF points a year and if you transfer your crediting to AA you only get 350k miles a year and you like to travel to Europe the latter will be a better option as its 160k return MEL-LHR in F so 320k for two people. For the same award on QF you need 384k per person 768k QFF points are required.

 

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

The awards I find good value for QF are the oneworld 280k in J and domestic awards.

I agree wholly.

 

[kooky]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

Do you have suggestions for alternative programs ? Believe me I am all ears if you do. Would be happy to throw QF away if I find an alternative that works out an overall better deal for me.

BA Avios with a European address, return J fares from European mainland only Eur 3500 ($5000). Credit card to SPG then to Avios. Award flights start at 4500 points one way instead of QF 8000.

 

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

BA Avios with a European address, return J fares from European mainland only Eur 3500 ($5000). Credit card to SPG then to Avios. Award flights start at 4500 points one way instead of QF 8000.

Nice but MH already have A$5k return MEL-CDG deals during their specials and soon another OW alternative in QR I've seen DPS-CDG US$3.3k in J which I believe is the standard rate for that route via SIN.
Still, BA Avios is another option to consider. Thanks.

 

[kooky]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

BA Avios with a European address, return J fares from European mainland only Eur 3500 ($5000). Credit card to SPG then to Avios. Award flights start at 4500 points one way instead of QF 8000.

Actually you could get One World Sapphire (=QF gold) with BA for only $4000 ex Europe, buy a mixed J/Y+ ticket - J one way with a free positioning flight on each end, change at SIN, and fly back in Y+ (or the other way around). e.g. CDG-LHR-SIN-SYD-MEL. The Y+ flights book into full Y on the two positioning flights. Price is about EUR 2700 = $4000. I believe you get slightly more tier points on BA's program for some of the legs, e.g. SIN-SYD QF=120 status credits, BA=140 tier points. You wouldn't even get Y+ on QF for $4000 out of AUS, that's why you need to faff around with all the MASAs.

 

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

Actually you could get One World Sapphire (=QF gold) with BA for only $4000 ex Europe, buy a mixed J/Y+ ticket - J one way with a free positioning flight on each end, change at SIN, and fly back in Y+ (or the other way around). e.g. CDG-LHR-SIN-SYD-MEL. The Y+ flights book into full Y on the two positioning flights. Price is about EUR 2700 = $4000. I believe you get slightly more tier points on BA's program for some of the legs, e.g. SIN-SYD QF=120 status credits, BA=140 tier points. You wouldn't even get Y+ on QF for $4000 out of AUS, that's why you need to faff around with all the MASAs.

Firstly, thanks to the mods for cleaning this up and starting the new thread.

Kooky, you make some good points, but if chasing status it may be cheaper to go via the AA route? In fact I've found a way to get to QF Plat through AA runs for about A$5k including flights to JFK from MEL, internal AA SC runs and 4 nights accom to break up the runs.

Food for thought though.

 

[anat0l]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

Most people have commented already on some of your options.

I'll only add a few more tips:

• As JohnK has alluded to, AA earn and burn on face is superior but you need to compare it against who you fly and which class you fly - and if it is Economy for the latter, what kind of Economy class. On the cheapest fares on QF, earn and burn might just be line ball with QF and then factor in your credit card spend. Of course, status and goals are a whole different ball game.
• Remember that redemptions with AAdvantage do not carry fuel surcharges, except when redeeming for BA and IB flights. I believe all other oneworld programmes will pass on YQ (that's probably wrong but I can only remember AA as the surefire exception).
• Naturally, the status you bear will, in theory, give you the most benefit when you fly the host airline of your status most frequently. For all other airlines, you should expect the gazetted benefits.
• I would be forgetting the fact that QF allow you to redeem award flights that can give you points and SCs as a key comparison point.

 

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

For example if you accumulate through spend/flying etc about 500k QFF points a year and if you transfer your crediting to AA you only get 350k miles a year and you like to travel to Europe the latter will be a better option as its 160k return MEL-LHR in F so 320k for two people. For the same award on QF you need 384k per person 768k QFF points are required.

I would be forgetting the fact that QF allow you to redeem award flights that can give you points and SCs as a key comparison point.

I would have thought that it's a key comparison point. Earning points/status by using points is a key differentiator and an additional way of earning.
Do you beg to differ because you're of the opinion that by paying the YQ you are effectively "paying" for the points and SC ?
Looking at my FASA example above, not only does it cost more in points, but the cash component in AA is $454 versus $1392 for QF. I agree quite a sizeable difference. But that will get you nearly 58k points 720 SCs.

 

[anat0l]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

I would have thought that it's a key comparison point. Earning points/status by using points is a key differentiator and an additional way of earning.
Do you beg to differ because you're of the opinion that by paying the YQ you are effectively "paying" for the points and SC ?
Looking at my FASA example above, not only does it cost more in points, but the cash component in AA is $454 versus $1392 for QF. I agree quite a sizeable difference. But that will get you nearly 58k points 720 SCs.

It depends on your goals, really. I guess I only begged to differ in your case because your goal was primarily to look away from the QFF programme, so getting "hung up" (as it were, lack of better phrase) on being able to earn points and SCs with Qantas is limiting. People happily give up on QF's ability to earn on awards (even before the said awards became more difficult to book) because their flying obtains the status they want, and gives them access to the same range of awards they would, in a net position, get through attempting the same on QFF, if not being ahead.

So, you need to compare the net positions.

One more point - domestic and Trans-Tasman redemptions in Australia will be, in general, more expensive on other programmes compared to QF (or at least the ones that work on geographical zones rather than distance zones). Of course there are exceptions to that (e.g. an east coast Australia to Perth flight return in J is more attractive, at least points wise, on AA compared to QF).

 

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

It depends on your goals, really. I guess I only begged to differ in your case because your goal was primarily to look away from the QFF programme, so getting "hung up" (as it were, lack of better phrase) on being able to earn points and SCs with Qantas is limiting. People happily give up on QF's ability to earn on awards (even before the said awards became more difficult to book) because their flying obtains the status they want, and gives them access to the same range of awards they would, in a net position, get through attempting the same on QFF, if not being ahead.

So, you need to compare the net positions.

One more point - domestic and Trans-Tasman redemptions in Australia will be, in general, more expensive on other programmes compared to QF (or at least the ones that work on geographical zones rather than distance zones). Of course there are exceptions to that (e.g. an east coast Australia to Perth flight return in J is more attractive, at least points wise, on AA compared to QF).

Agree with needing to compare net positions.

With my LHR F example. You may earn 15% of the points spent back but its costing you almost 2.5x more in points and 3x in cash so is it worth it ? Probably not so from a points position but how about from the ability of this one flight to retain SG status for another year ? Probably still not so.

What I need to do is to figure out how much of my spending I could transfer to AA, how to get AA status, and how many points I would earn a year if crediting flights/hotels to AA versus QF, and to a lesser extent how I would like to use the points (I say lesser extent as I know AA is almost always cheaper in both cash and points/miles, except for domestic J as you mention - and my focus is overseas travel)

 

[burmans]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

I personally am of the belief that the "have only one FF program" and stick to it is flawed. While I agree there are times when QF is the only serious option (e.g. actually flying in OZ) there are other times when crediting to SQ makes more sense to me, e.g. CC spend. So why not do both, the CC spend gives you nothing in terms of SC's so if you think this is better directed to SQ (or another program) why not. Signup bonus are indeed fewer with cards you can send to SQ but they are there. Of course there are other options than SQ too.

 

[JohnK]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

I may have been mistaken but I still think that 161,500 is more than just a touch less than 256,000 and I still maintain that no QF redemptions are 'extremely good value'.

Extremely good value?

Can't go wrong with Oneworld awards!

 

[Nizar]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

Extremely good value?

Can't go wrong with Oneworld awards!

Agree wholly.

 

[NM]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

Extremely good value?

Can't go wrong with Oneworld awards!

That is certainly the case for economy awards, especially the 130K award. I believe it to be one of the best value QFF redemptions (apart from long-haul international upgrades). And knowing you as I do, I acknowledge that your willingness to travel in Y makes its a great value award for you.

But as you move up to business class and first class, the value diminishes compared with AAnother AAirline's OneWorld AAwards, where QFF doubles then triples the points requirement as you move up the cabin chain, while AA cost increases by smaller increments (120K->150K->230K for up to 25,000 miles, 140K->190K->280K for up to 35,000 miles).

Also, some USA domestic flights can be good value redemptions using QFF points, depending on the distance and routing of course.

 

[anat0l]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

That is certainly the case for economy awards, especially the 130K award. I believe it to be one of the best value QFF redemptions (apart from long-haul international upgrades). And knowing you as I do, I acknowledge that your willingness to travel in Y makes its a great value award for you.

But as you move up to business class and first class, the value diminishes compared with AAnother AAirline's OneWorld AAwards, where QFF doubles then triples the points requirement as you move up the cabin chain, while AA cost increases by smaller increments (120K->150K->230K for up to 25,000 miles, 140K->190K->280K for up to 35,000 miles).

Also, some USA domestic flights can be good value redemptions using QFF points, depending on the distance and routing of course.

That's certainly true, though in QFF parlance, getting 35,000 miles of J for 256k points - even after you add the considerably high taxes - is an excellent score. That then is certainly one of the best QFF redemptions around. Of course, you don't earn points or SCs on this kind of booking, but so it goes...

AAwards do have a significant advantage in the form which you state, but you factor that all into the big consideration of whether you jump to AA.

Certainly, in either case, do people really redeem for those awards? Yes... but also no, because they are usually more tempted by awards which fall at thresholds cheaper than that. In the case of QF, domestic ASAs often get snapped up, or international upgrades. In the case of AA, you see many here who quickly expend what little mileage they have on J or F awards - hey, who can resist handing over a mere 80k for a Australia - Europe one-way award in F (especially you have to wait for another 110k just to get 3 times the BIS mileage and it is in J).

Of course, if I were able to qualify as an AA PLT or EXP via EQMs or EQPs, I'd probably strongly consider jumping because that will easily finance 1-3 of these J or F oneworld awards every two years based on the mileage earned in the process of qualification alone.


As for the USA domestic awards, you do have a point, but only in Y (as AA First awards on QFF are charged at First Class rates). By the time you consider redeeming the mileage in Y, often it's better just to hand over the cash, unless the cash tickets on that route are through the roof.

 

[NM]

Re: [Confirmed] QF removing [cheap] ASAs [from web booking engine Jun 26] was 10Apri

While we are talking about AA awards, when making a booking today the AAgent could not see any availability on QF93 HKG-BNE on a day that I could see X9 showing on ExpertFlyer. That is unusual and every other time I have seen X or U on QF flights on ExpertFlyer they have been available to book as AAwards. But I was able to book on a CX flight so no real problem.

But just by way of reference, the co-payment for a BNE-MEL-LHR-CDG//FRA-HKG-BNE routing was US$230 + US$25 booking fee. I hate to think what QFF would have asked as co-payment for that routing :shock:.