I am over old staff

[Quickstatus]

It’s called performance planning and management. Most employees have it in some way shape or form.

Substantiating or vetting a complaint/compliment is (a) making sure the complaint is actually a crew issue (not something outside their control like running out of a meal choice) and (b) discussing the incident with the staff member. Just like SQ does. The process isn’t rocket science. As for the EBA, performance management is usually permitted. The sanctions for poor performance might be the issue.

Yes I understand all that and I’m sure as a public company the airline already has performance metrics that they use

The suggestion here is to add specific customer feedback which is not unusual in itself. However, it would be very difficult to exclude biases that skew the feedback because of the multifaceted nature of air travel customer experience. One bad experience in one area can significantly affect experiences in another.

You just have to read the complaints that passengers often publish on social media. When they unload on the airline about poor service in air, there is often an accompanying litany of other complaints starting from when they checked in. But for the bad experience at checkin, they may never have complained about inflight service

I prefer finding ways of celebrating exceptional service and making it easy for passengers to celebrate and complain. Yes it’s the old carrot and stick.

 

[Hvr]

Just want to be really clear that I am not anti-old people. I am anti-people who have been with the company so long they no longer care.

A lot of this is a management responsibility to manage their staff and set appropriate expectations about required and desired behaviours. Management also needs to temper their hyperbole about what the company offers.

I'm sure we've all been seduced by promises during the recruitment/promotion phase of the work cycle and then when it comes time for the company to deliver they can't/won't. But for some reason they still expect the employee to deliver what they promised.

Basically, does the company still care about their employees? If not. then why should the employee care?

 

[JohnK]

A star rating, or performance rating based on customer feedback is not unheard of. SQ uses it. Now the staff might think it’s unduly harsh, but when was the last time you had a bad crew on an SQ flight... in any class?

That would be me not that long ago but it was only one crew member probably having a bad day.

 

[QFflyermelbourne]

Apropos of nothing....

I had a 34 year veteran of Qantas on QF127 the other day who was utterly superb in the J cabin so age is certainly not the only factor.

Apropos of even less....

A QF employed friend showed me an internal facebook site post the other day boasting that the cabin crew of that day's QF73 SYD-SFO had combined experience of 487 years!!!!! A real bunch of dinosaurs.

 

[juddles]

Apropos of nothing....

I had a 34 year veteran of Qantas on QF127 the other day who was utterly superb in the J cabin so age is certainly not the only factor.

Apropos of even less....

A QF employed friend showed me an internal facebook site post the other day boasting that the cabin crew of that day's QF73 SYD-SFO had combined experience of 487 years!!!!! A real bunch of dinosaurs.

If QF could just manage to weed out (or put to pasture) those staff that have lost any customer service keenness, they would be a fantastic airline. I don't mind old staff, in fact I love them. But jaded staff, it destroys the airline.

 

[Isochronous]

This is a sterling example of Australia's antiquated and restrictive employment laws, which protect mediocrity, reward mendacity, and punish honest hard work.

QF FA training should also emphasise personal grooming and appearance more like SQ so that the staff are more presentable. I must say part of the problem is that the current uniform is not very impressive in terms of design and material - it looks cheap.

 

[JessicaTam]

This is a sterling example of Australia's antiquated and restrictive employment laws, which protect mediocrity, reward mendacity, and punish honest hard work.

Actually it is about how the staff are managed, which is completely independent of employment laws.

I manage a number of staff, both operational and administrative. They have different EBAs, and are represented by a number of different unions. But their performance, or ability to do their job effectively is my responsibility. I work with staff that have been with the organisation anything from 6 months to 30 years or more. If they seem to be jaded or lacking enthusiasm then it is up to me to work with them to turn that around.

If QF have staff that are not providing the best customer service that QF expect, then it is up to their managers to remedy that. But of course they have to know it is happening first.

 

[JohnPhelan]

The issue is attitude, not age. Some young people have great attitude, some don't. Some older people are fantastic, some aren't. The problem is that, in Australia, it is often hard to remove/demote people whose attitude has slipped.

 

[dk4]

Actually it is about how the staff are managed, which is completely independent of employment laws.

I think Qantas EBAs prioritise "seniority", whereas the newer airlines prioritise "performance" standards.

So perhaps Qantas is saddle with outdated staff employment conditions, whereas newer airlines are not.

I think JQ staff are rated by mystery fliers, and their performance is constantly monitored in that respect.

I know VA staff are rated by flying guests, as I receive a survey to fill out (on average) after every second VA flight I take - and I am asked to rate everything about my experience from the moment I book, to the time I walk out of the arrival airport. (And given the amount of data VA would have on my previous submissions, they would also be able to rate my ratings.) Although one thing VA ask me to rate is "pilot professionalism 1-10", which I have got no idea how to rate??! (I guess by their PAs?)

 

[Sdtravel]

I dont disagree with many of the points made here. Making changes will be difficult.
Didint Qantas get sued by its female flight attendants back in the 1980's or 1990's for discrimination on how they were told to present themselves.

 

[albatross710]

Here's a concept. Qantas with its $16B turnover and billion of dollars of assets might actually have a crew performance system. As pax we are commenting on one aspect of it. I thnk give the company credit for their system, provide feedback etc and let the management work it.

I spend a good number of sectors flying around Asia on Cebu Pacific, Air Asia and Tiger. The crew is very young and very focused on rote performance without empathy. hey struggle to deal with difficult passengers. Anything more than shuffling bags around the overhead lockers is about it. I do wonder what would happen in the event of an inflight situation.

Boarding QF20 MNL-SYD is an immediate change. I always notice the age difference and respect that we have an economy that values the contribution of all ages,

The cost of age discrimination that the OP would prefer would be far higher cost than someone missing out on his bottle of water. For a start try running the numbers on the taxes.
Alby

 

[Dannyism]

But jaded staff, it destroys the airline

Jaded staff destroys any business.

Reminds me of the time, shortly after boarding. A flight attendant barked at me something along the lines off 'you need to move to seat XX'. I didn't say anything just got up and moved from my assigned seat to the new seat, but several persons around me remarked at how rude that was.

In hindsight I should of complained to Qantas. Or made a comment about her manners directly to her.

 

[outbackowner]

We are on QF 12 from JFK to LAX and have an older than 50 crew looking after us.
Give me an older crew any day as I am over anyone born since the 1980’s as they have no idea about customer service, onto flight mode now.

 

[juddles]

.....The cost of age discrimination that the OP would prefer would be far higher cost than someone missing out on his bottle of water. For a start try running the numbers on the taxes.
Alby.....

Sorry Alby, I do not understand this...?

 

[N860CR]

When it comes to Qantas, I find it’s less about age and more about era and base (if that makes sense).

Qantas have numerous staff on numerous different employment contracts in numerous bases. Each one has its positives and negatives.

Overall I’d say the old contract, Sydney based staff are the worst Qantas have (overall I mean). If I’m getting on a 747 to Sydney I always prepare for the worst. There are some good ones, but virtually all of the Qantas shockers I’ve had over the years are on long haul services with Sydney based staff.

The Brisbane base is very senior, and I used to enjoy the 747 BNE-SIN flights as the crew were usually very good.

There’s then the mix of domestic/NZ/UK/380 etc crew who are usually younger, and can be variable, but generally not awful.

If you’re routinely flying SYD-SCL, I can see why you’d be experiencing the worst of them