I am over old staff

[Quickstatus]

Seniority does not always seem accurately reflect merit but is often a measure of competency so in a way a senior is generally better than a junior.

Pilots on the other hand I think are. The more they take off and land and are able to go home, the better they are.

 

[juddles]

..... Often upon talking to them this seems to be the first long haul international they have done. Maybe that's juddles problem?.....

Boca, on this point, I am surprised by the reality of how many different crew seem to "man" this route.

I think I did SYD - SCL 12 times last year, and 7 so far this year. What amazes me is the different staff. I think in that time I have had the same CSM just twice, and only two or three times seen a same cabin crew member.

Every flight, as I walk down the walkway to board, I hope to see the great staff I have had before, but this pretty much never happens.

I was off LATAM due to their short J seats, but maybe I should dabble in them again so I appreciate QF more

 

[juddles]

Seniority does not always seem accurately reflect merit but is often a measure of competency so in a way a senior is generally better than a junior.

Pilots on the other hand I think are. The more they take off and land and are able to go home, the better they are.

As someone else said, the thing about cabin duties is that it is pretty much the same stuff, flight after flight. So many many years of flying is probably more prone to making some bored. I think that when it comes to customer service, some people delight in being good at it. They end up with the fantastic combination of experience and never-ending enthusiasm. But the other half do it as a "job". nothing more. And when you get someone doing a job, apparently secure in their position sheerly through seniority, that no longer has any passion for customer service, you get the type of cabin crew member that appalls me.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

We often choose Drs based on our rapport with them. Some of the best Drs have an atrocious “bedside” manner.

Cabin crew are better because they get a better review by passengers?

Pilots get more stars if passengers think ther landing is smooth?

Maybe we should introduce tips. That’s a sure way of getting better service?

The Uber star rating has been shown to be useless

I would rather cabin crew not smile when they don’t feel like smiling and the pilots make a hard landing than try to get a smooth one just for the sake of a star

I don’t know why pilots have been introduced into the equation? Not relevant for this discussion.

A star rating, or performance rating based on customer feedback is not unheard of. SQ uses it. Now the staff might think it’s unduly harsh, but when was the last time you had a bad crew on an SQ flight... in any class?

Safety is a given. Someone else to take out of the equation. We expect crew to perform their legal functions well and without favour.

But for general service, should seniority be a given if you leave a trail of destruction behind you when interacting with passengers? It’s almost like a reward for bad service.

 

[Quickstatus]

If a cabin crew gets 5star from one passenger and 1star from another what does that mean?. An average of 2.5 stars?

Both passengers might have been given the same service. But maybe one passengers had unrealistic expectations and the other had none?
All sorts of biases (and some are unconscious) come into play when doing a review. How does anyone account for those?.

What about the one who is good at the PR but terrible at being a team player? They get better ratings?

Seniority as I said is not necessarily a measure of merit.

I use the pilots because it illustrates that often passengers have no idea but yet still comment/review as though they are experts. Hard landings are often good landings. But most passengers equate smooth with better.

 

[Quickstatus]

As someone else said, the thing about cabin duties is that it is pretty much the same stuff, flight after flight. So many many years of flying is probably more prone to making some bored. I think that when it comes to customer service, some people delight in being good at it. They end up with the fantastic combination of experience and never-ending enthusiasm. But the other half do it as a "job". nothing more. And when you get someone doing a job, apparently secure in their position sheerly through seniority, that no longer has any passion for customer service, you get the type of cabin crew member that appalls me.

Maybe but speaking with a senior CSM some time ago about her experiences, her comment was that every flight was different in many ways. A successful flight is one where the passenger won’t even notice the “cough” that goes on in the background.

So many factors make a great cabin crew. A lot of it the passengers won’t even see.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

If a cabin crew gets 5star from one passenger and 1star from another what does that mean?. An average of 2.5 stars?

Both passengers might have been given the same service. But maybe one passengers had unrealistic expectations and the other had none?
All sorts of biases (and some are unconscious) come into play when doing a review. How does anyone account for those?.

Seniority as I said is not necessarily a measure of merit.

I use the pilots because it illustrates that often passengers have no idea but yet still comment/review as though they are experts. Hard landings are often good landings. But most passengers equate smooth with better.

It’s not that hard to develop a set of criteria that measures performance, and links benefits to performance.

You can still have seniority with an airline... number of years served. This determines your pay grade.

But using your seniority for additional benefits, such as bidding for prime routes, that could be made dependent on your performance assessment.

The rating system would make each and every review equal. Every positive review gets one star. Every negative gets one taken away. Those with the most stars get to bid first. Those with the least, last.

Reviews, positive and negative, are vetted to make sure they are substantiated and valid - ie, directly attributable to a crew action (and not an airline delay etc)

 

[Daver6]

If a cabin crew gets 5star from one passenger and 1star from another what does that mean?. An average of 2.5 stars?

No, that would be an average of 3 stars. Sorry, just being a smarty pants

 

[11sjw]

If a cabin crew gets 5star from one passenger and 1star from another what does that mean?. An average of 2.5 stars?

Both passengers might have been given the same service. But maybe one passengers had unrealistic expectations and the other had none?
All sorts of biases (and some are unconscious) come into play when doing a review. How does anyone account for those?.

What about the one who is good at the PR but terrible at being a team player? They get better ratings?

Seniority as I said is not necessarily a measure of merit.

I use the pilots because it illustrates that often passengers have no idea but yet still comment/review as though they are experts. Hard landings are often good landings. But most passengers equate smooth with better.

Umm average of 5 stars and 1 star is 3 stars. Ok smart**** out!!!

Edit: Beaten to it!

 

[drron]

I recently gave an illustration of senior staff on our AA F flights NRT-DFW where we usually had the same purser.On one occasion we had a much older female purser.One FA who we knew warned us she was a b*tch.Her words.However she noticed mrsdrron knitting left handed and asked if she could watch and learn.The 2 of them got on well and the FA told me that even they were being treated better.
This is what makes performance assessments very difficult when it relates to customer service.

 

[Boca68]

Boca, on this point, I am surprised by the reality of how many different crew seem to "man" this route.

I think I did SYD - SCL 12 times last year, and 7 so far this year. What amazes me is the different staff. I think in that time I have had the same CSM just twice, and only two or three times seen a same cabin crew member.

Every flight, as I walk down the walkway to board, I hope to see the great staff I have had before, but this pretty much never happens.

I was off LATAM due to their short J seats, but maybe I should dabble in them again so I appreciate QF more

I've noticed the same thing juddles. I don't think I've encountered many more than once. Only a CSM, think his name is John, kind of reminds me of the Aussie Home Loans guy, who I've encountered 3 times I think. Last year only did QF on the route 3 sectors, LATAM about 9 sectors. But I'm so sick of LATAM, I've already booked the next 4 sectors on QF. I need to go back to QF, its just much better. I usually chose LATAM because of the better (for me) connections, especially on the homeward leg.

And as mentioned by others above, its a good route to do for crew with generally a long slip. But I see QF are fiddling with days its flies for much of the year. Still 3 times a week, but changing the days 2 or 3 times. Probably due to maintenance and the loss of 1 747 last year. Wonder what will happen once the 747's go and we get 787's.

As for omelettes, I should not have mentioned it. One of my little bug bears with LATAM recently, is 5 of the last 6 times I've flown. I have ordered scrambled eggs for breakfast, gotten an omelette instead. No big deal, buts its symbolic of the lack of attention to detail I find. Oh! and the nice Ferregamo amenity kits have gone, now its just dreadfully cheap and tacky.

 

[juddles]

I've noticed the same thing juddles. I don't think I've encountered many more than once. Only a CSM, think his name is John, kind of reminds me of the Aussie Home Loans guy, who I've encountered 3 times I think. Last year only did QF on the route 3 sectors, LATAM about 9 sectors. But I'm so sick of LATAM, I've already booked the next 4 sectors on QF. I need to go back to QF, its just much better. I usually chose LATAM because of the better (for me) connections, especially on the homeward leg.

And as mentioned by others above, its a good route to do for crew with generally a long slip. But I see QF are fiddling with days its flies for much of the year. Still 3 times a week, but changing the days 2 or 3 times. Probably due to maintenance and the loss of 1 747 last year. Wonder what will happen once the 747's go and we get 787's.

As for omelettes, I should not have mentioned it. One of my little bug bears with LATAM recently, is 5 of the last 6 times I've flown. I have ordered scrambled eggs for breakfast, gotten an omelette instead. No big deal, buts its symbolic of the lack of attention to detail I find. Oh! and the nice Ferregamo amenity kits have gone, now its just dreadfully cheap and tacky.

My favorite CSM is called John - probably the same guy.

As for omelettes, surely your spanish is up to the task by now? No quiero omelette! Quiero huevos revueltos!

 

[stm1sydney]

Yet another reason to fly VA instead. (Obviously not an option for SCL though.)

 

[juddles]

Maybe but speaking with a senior CSM some time ago about her experiences, her comment was that every flight was different in many ways. A successful flight is one where the passenger won’t even notice the “cough” that goes on in the background.

So many factors make a great cabin crew. A lot of it the passengers won’t even see.

I respectfully disagree. That is only taking into account behind the scenes stuff. I take all that stuff as a given. Cabin staff need to serve the pax. Especially in J. Qantas has probably the best record in aviation history as far as incidents go. But if their staff are sour, what does that mean for an airline?

 

[TheInsider]

Yet another reason to fly VA instead. (Obviously not an option for SCL though.)

Why is it another reason to fly VA?
Just an FYI, Virgin have huge shortages of Cabin Crew due to extremely high rates of 'sick' leave.

 

[Quickstatus]

It’s not that hard to develop a set of criteria that measures performance, and links benefits to performance.

You can still have seniority with an airline... number of years served. This determines your pay grade.

But using your seniority for additional benefits, such as bidding for prime routes, that could be made dependent on your performance assessment.

The rating system would make each and every review equal. Every positive review gets one star. Every negative gets one taken away. Those with the most stars get to bid first. Those with the least, last.

Reviews, positive and negative, are vetted to make sure they are substantiated and valid - ie, directly attributable to a crew action (and not an airline delay etc)

I cant see how a customer review can ever be substantiated unless several customers put in similar reviews.
And who is going to vet it?
Try getting that through the enterprise agreement

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I cant see how a customer review can ever be substantiated unless several customers put in similar reviews.
And who is going to vet it?
Try getting that through the enterprise agreement

It’s called performance planning and management. Most employees have it in some way shape or form.

Substantiating or vetting a complaint/compliment is (a) making sure the complaint is actually a crew issue (not something outside their control like running out of a meal choice) and (b) discussing the incident with the staff member. Just like SQ does. The process isn’t rocket science. As for the EBA, performance management is usually permitted. The sanctions for poor performance might be the issue.

 

[ozbeachbabe]

Meet the woman who’s spent 60 years making the skies a little friendlier

 

[Deleted member]

I have said this before on other her threads, i find who I am when i arrive, will usually relate to how I’m treated

 

[JohnM]

Just want to be really clear that I am not anti-old people.

I am very relieved about that, mate .