How wealthy do you need to be to buy your own J or F ticket?

[defurax]

This is an enjoyable thread. I became keen on flying J after we did J RTW in 2010. I booked for me, the missus and son using a Lufthansa fare - approx. $6,500 per ticket. For the excellent level of comfort (including QF A380 from SYD to LAX)

I'm confused. Wouldn't a Lufthansa RTW ticket be on Star Alliance airlines like UA or SQ for the Trans-Pacific segment instead of QF?

 

[cove]

With the various points deals running it remains quite possible to go in J to Europe and North America for $2,500 to $3,000 so that eliminates quite a few travellers but that is a very good deal. I don't think you need any special income/wealth test to do a US Air ,AA, Avianca, United points deal or some others.

 

[JohnM]

Great thread.

I'm retired with a comfortable but not excessive income. But, most importantly, I'm divorced ...., so I can do what I want to do!

When I was working, it was Y travel but stay in major hotels was acceptable within the travel policy. I always hankered for the reverse as I just couldn't see the value in what the Sheratons and Hiltons of the world were charging.

Even before retiring (and after divorce), I started doing a DONEx every year on personal coin and have been doing so now for at least the last ten years (two a few years ago and one time an AONEx - in the last year of the 20-sector RTW fares). It has the added advantage of easily maintaining WP. At presnt I do the DONEx's ex-Australia simply for convenience but maybe in the future if the need to shave $$ becomes necessary, I'll look to booking from overseas locations.

I enjoy the ride in aircraft and the longer the better, so J or UPGs to F I love but I do not pay for J point-to-point (I leave that for JASAs). I detest 'fancy' hotels (impersonal, to me not worth the $$ and I sleep really badly in constant air-conditioning) so generally I stay in hostels where I meet interesting people or use low-cost hotels.

I guess the real bottom-line here is that I don't have a SWMBO to worry about as the income wouldn't cope with two wanting to do a DONEx each year - but, as always, each to their own.

I'm just back from S America on a sweetly-priced JASA and off to E Africa on another sweetly-priced JASA in early August, then the 2013 DONEx is in Sept-Oct. The JASAs were a stroke of luck but my motto is to have travel destination plans always ready to go and then go for it the instant a sweet coincident JASA shows up. The ability to make INSTANT decisions is critical - the great benefit of retirement and divorce .

If I really want to go, I could tolerate whY but I dodge it for long haul if I possibly can. I've booked a PE special to Santiago and return in November on the way to Patagonia and the Antarctic (no sweet JASAs available and, in any event, the points pile was severely depleted). That will be my first try of PE but I have an UPG request in so I may never see the inside of the PE cabin.

As many AFFers would no doubt relate to, trying to explain to friends and family why I do what I do and the way I do it is an exercise in futility .

 

[sighing]

I'm confused. Wouldn't a Lufthansa RTW ticket be on Star Alliance airlines like UA or SQ for the Trans-Pacific segment instead of QF?

It is possible. Lufthansa offer a special RTW fare that includes QF flight from Australia to US. roundaboutravel.com.au gives you some good examples (I am in no way affiliated with this company). Cheers, Sigh.

 

[Rebekkap]

I changed jobs about 4 years ago and with that came constant international travel. Before then, international J was a bit of a pipe dream as much as OS travel was. Now, with so much travel, I simply won't go below Y+ and quite often will be in the J cabin either paid outright through my work or when self funded it's usually a combo of fully paid or Y+ with points upgrade. 60+ international a year with most of it in the 10 - 14 hour bracket, I simply would not be able to handle Y.

I think I want your job....

 

[grubbidok]

I don't think I could ever justify the cost of business or first travel.

I travel quite a lot for work (1-2 European, 2-3 Asian, 2-3 North American + others each year), but as it's in the academic sector we aren't allowed anything but Y (not even Y+). This has included flights to London or Seattle with meetings or presentations just a few hours after landing. I have been upgraded quite a few times on a number of airlines, and it was nice. But not that nice - you're still stuck in a seat flying across the earth, just a better seat [or bed] with better food. Most of it I'm working anyway. Maybe I'm just battle-hardened (even during high school I nearly lived on a McCaffertys bus every couple of weeks between Qld and NT shuffling between parents)?

For points I really use them all on personal travel for Mrs Grubbidok. Either to take her with me on trips or to do something together. If I'm going to fork out the big bucks I'd rather spend on the holiday once I'm there, not the flight over. If we did it in J we just wouldn't get to do it as often, so I still can't see the value. The only time I have done it used points for J) is to take advantage of VA's reward SC offer to get an easy 80SCs for an upcoming SYD-MEL trip, but that was only to guarantee Platinum this year, and it'll be a once-off.

I'm much more for the trip once you're there, rather than the flight. I've also travelled so much that I've learnt how to be quite comfortable in Y. I just can't see it ever being worth the cost for me. Maybe if I was Bill Gates and it was a relatively small expense, but even on three or four times the [>$100k] income I earn, I just couldn't justify it to myself (perhaps that's my poverty-conscious country boy mentality coming out!).

 

[rtts]

Yup..agree completely . . tho' for me it is depression mentality from New England, US upbringing. Steerage class ain't so bad . . .and when it is, it is my "hair shirt". Frankly, I still get my moneys worth from the marvel of the metal tube actually leaving the ground and staying aloft. How does that work, anyway?

 

[Julesmac]

Mn nickname for MrMac is "Mr Upgrade" and back in the day when we owned a large and profitable business we could indulge that habit! Now being retirees with a SMSF things have radically changed! Personally I'd sit on my head if it meant travelling overseas - but booze and sleeping pills works. And as others have said, using this forum to source deals/seats/redemption travel has been a fabulous resource. I'd prefer to spend the money on the ground at the destination. That being said, we travelled last year to Europe (for our 40th wedding anniversary) on SQ A380 in J, all booked on points, and it was so stunning that I have barely any recollection of the flights. I think I slept most of the way. Absolutely wonderful - but if I'd had to stump up the dollars I'd be down in cattle class!

 

[sparoz]

We don't get a chance to go on holidays for long periods due to business commitments, so always like to indulge ourselves when that happens and usually no more than one to two weeks at a time. We always travel at least J, but always on points. If I have to pay for it with cash, the three of us means 18k for J which is equivalent to a nice suite for a week. I know it is actually relatively comparable to a 2k ticket and a $150 room when I was younger, but still couldn't justify it. I still rather spend the money on my accommodation, tour, or food than a flight.

Everyone is different and will always justify their spent whichever that brings them utility, so someone else might think the two luxury cars we have, always bought brand new/demo and changed every 2 years is excessive. However, we use the car regularly, compare to just hours for the flight, and it is funded by our passive income. I guess when 18k becomes loose change for me, then it might be different - that is something less than our one day earning. Otherwise, our current budget of only using 10% of income doesn't allow this sort of discretionary spent.

To be honest, if I don't have an excess of 2 million points I might think different or may be I will budget differently to allow for J travel, I guess once you turn left, if you can no longer turn right . However, I actually "prepaid" my travel with the finance charge from using my cards - of course at a very discounted rate - so I might just be using the system for my travel.

 

[Melburnian1]

A$18,000 for a 'nice suite for a week?' That's way above most individuals' budgets!

Like others, I prefer to spend money on the ground with my typical daily accommodation budget being A$50 - A$150 (maximum, and not every day) per day. I'm not minded to go to Europe on a cheapie carrier such as China Southern as the business class is likely to not have English speaking attendants once you are on the Guangzhou - Europe leg, so communication would have to resort to pointing or other such measures. No thank you.

 

[bricky64]

i have a good disposable income and i live outside of oz...i fly back to sydney every 2 years from jfk....its about 7K USD in J class return..so that works out to about 3.5 K per annum..thats pretty justifiable..no???

 

[aussiejohn]

This has been an interesting thread and maybe gives me a little hope for the future! I got a taste for F and nice hotels many years ago when I used to travel with my ex on his business trips. But once he was history, well it was back to steerage for me if I wanted to travel.

I am good at saving, own my house and have a 16 year old car. I rarely go out, drink the odd glass of wine, don't smoke, and don't buy coffee or lunches every day etc. I love travel so I save for that.

But for the last 10 years work has been erratic and I have had longish periods unemployed. Been lucky enough recently to have 18 months continuous work but that ends in September. By then I will only have 1.5 years to retirement. I don't have enough super and I dread trying to survive on the pension and having no more trips, or very rare trips.

I could afford a J trip to the UK if I really wanted it. My knees are not so good now and I am resorting to a walking stick. Bad legs, a walking stick and whY isn't a good combination! So I am thinking seriously about this now. Maybe PE would work for me.

The real problem for me is meals and accommodation, especially in the UK, it is just so damm expensive for something even half reasonable. I don't have people to stay with to reduce the costs, or else I would be able to splurge a little on the air fares. I am usually away for about 4 weeks with a brief stopover in Sg on the way over and back, 'cos I cannot do the long hauls anymore.

I nearly have enough QF points to do a J trip over and enough VA points for a J trip home, so whilst it will clean out my points, that might be the go for my next trip, probably in 2014. I get most of my points only from CC spending and the odd bonuses, so it will be almost impossible to replenish them once they are gone. Maybe a better way to go is use the points to upgrade from whY. I will need to trawl through AFF and get some pointers on this and also those round the world type fares.

As Lotto is the impossible dream, I have discounted that from my thinking!

 

[Erica E]

I am a registered nurse and my husband is a tradesman, so we're reasonably well off, but not wealthy. We fly J now because, if only for a few hours, I enjoy being the one looked after. I'm blindly loyal to Qantas, so we probably miss out on much better deals (and service sometimes) from other airlines, but I try to buy fares on sale.

 

[bricky64]

i live overseas and get back to sydney every 2 years..a J class return ticket from jfk to syd is about 7K USD...i assume its discounted, so i justify it by thinking its really about 3 1/2 K a year...

 

[OATEK]

I am a registered nurse and my husband is a tradesman, so we're reasonably well off, but not wealthy. We fly J now because, if only for a few hours, I enjoy being the one looked after. I'm blindly loyal to Qantas, so we probably miss out on much better deals (and service sometimes) from other airlines, but I try to buy fares on sale.

Welcome Erica, and I can see how you would like to be the care receiver for a change.

When this thread started it was about trying to link income to J travel, but as it has gone on there has been a lot of comments about justifying J fares. the bottom line is that we only have to justify our J fares to ourselves at the time of booking, and I am with you. Mrs Oatek and I happy to pay what we need to experience travel our way. Each to their own!

 

[Sprucegoose]

I own a pair of shoes and eat most meals. I also never (read rarely) fly int Y.

its a personal preference.

 

[cove]

I have heard and seen the excitement of friends who have been travelling using bought US Air and AA miles. You don't need to be wealthy to do some of these buy miles systems but yes it is a bit more than an economy ticket and it involves some thought and planning. My tax accountant is in London with his wife after doing a run out of Perth to Copenhagen using US Air miles.
This leaves the savings plan for retirement intact and they will probably travel more as a result.

 

[Rox]

Maybe I'm just battle-hardened (even during high school I nearly lived on a McCaffertys bus every couple of weeks between Qld and NT shuffling between parents)?

Can I relate to this!
For me it was 6x 18 hours each year for 7 + years on Skennars (I think was the forerunner to mcCaffertys) with 1 plane & 1 train trip in there.

I think that's why air travel fascinates me so much now. Long hauls in any class (only Y so far) are still something I can get excited about.

 

[Bazzi]

aussiejohn you are a kindred spirit. We have been fortunate to travel in J only the last few years and only thanks to points - not even worth thinking about if we had to pay with $ - and we only travel J for sectors longer than 6 hours. Financially we couldn't afford to do any more trips even if travelling Y and, like you, every discretionary dollar goes towards our travel fund but while we have a budget for every trip, we never deny ourselves the opportunity to experience something unexpected en route - we just make the savings up as we go, I think of it as a game. We often ponder would we travel more if money wasn't a factor but, while we would like the luxury of being able to take advantage of a special deal, we honestly don't think we would. We really look forward to our trips, the planning, the budgeting all count towards the actual experience and I believe it keeps us honest - we don't waste the opportunity.


While I thoroughly enjoy all the benefits of J - great food, French wines etc - my partner could care less about those being a vegetarian and non drinker. The bigger seat, more space and less people occupying that space makes a huge difference for her as the pressure in the cabin plays havoc with her sinuses and causes some very unpleasant side effects. Travelling J allows her to get off at the other end ready to go instead of us losing the first 24 hours while she recuperates. We have done a few sectors PE with QF and would be happy to travel that way all the time but we can fly J with SQ for less than PE with QF.


We don't spend much time in our hotel room and I don't really like paying more than $100 a night for accom, as long as it is clean, in a safe area, and convenient to transport, it is good enough for me. I book apartments if we are staying 3 nights or more as they can be cheaper and also allow you to offset the cost of meals. We have stayed in some brilliant, unique youth hostels in the UK and generally start with the Accor group if needing a hotel as they range from budget (Ibis) to 5* (Sofitel) - we have found the Ibis hotels to be a perfect fit for us (the one in Milan nearest Central Station was brilliant).


If the desire is there, I believe you can pretty much make anything happen, as long as you are prepared to make some sacrifices and compromise.

 

[Grandma's Wings "]

Rox, I agree with you... I use to do a Skennars to Sydney return for medical reasons...then started flying and I've loved it ever since... always in Cattle class , being a Pensioner and saving FF points...I've never had the luxury of flying in either J or F and this is surely one on my "Bucket List" in the future...