How to retrieve money from Qantas

[levelnine]

but they do not have a value between QFF and a member of the program.

That does not mean that, if Qantas violates its contract with you by terminating the contract otherwise than in accordance with the terms of the contract (eg Qantas closes your QFF account without justification), a court will not award you damages on the basis of the monetary value of the points lost.

 

[RooFlyer]

Points may have a value between QFF and their points partners on the basis of a commercial arrangement between these parties but they do not have a value between QFF and a member of the program. The terms and conditions of the program clearly state this. You should not be confusing these two very different scenarios.

19.4 Qantas Points do not have a monetary value and cannot be converted to money. They cannot be sold, transferred or exchanged other than in accordance with these Terms and Conditions. The prices for additional Qantas Points do not represent a monetary value for Qantas Points.

My bolding

Points sure do have a value between Qantas and the points holder! 200,000, say, points has a 'value' as being getting flight(s) or toasters at a considerably cheaper cost than without 200,000 points. With zero points I have nothing. With, say, 200,000 points I have 'something' and it has the value I can exchange them for with Qantas or its partners.

Perhaps you meant to write 'monetary value' in the part of the first sentence that I bolded?

 

[RichardMEL]

So in the case of the OP sending a "Letter of Demand" to QF - for the "value" of the 200k points? or the MONETARY value of 200k points? Interesting distinction.....

 

[tdimdad]

...in a profession that uses English at a high professional level...

Off-topic
The word 'revert' was new to me, too, at least in this use. But now you really got me interested: what's that "high professional level"? What's the definition of it, please? And what are the alternatives to it?
/Off-topic

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Points may have a value between QFF and their points partners on the basis of a commercial arrangement between these parties but they do not have a value between QFF and a member of the program. The terms and conditions of the program clearly state this. You should not be confusing these two very different scenarios.

19.4 Qantas Points do not have a monetary value and cannot be converted to money. They cannot be sold, transferred or exchanged other than in accordance with these Terms and Conditions. The prices for additional Qantas Points do not represent a monetary value for Qantas Points.

Sure, a member can’t demand their points be ‘paid out’ in dollars. And maybe when the program first started out, where the only redemptions were outright award seats or upgrades, there was no direct correlation between points and the price of goods (the seat or upgrade). But we’ve moved on since then. ‘points plus pay’ (or the ‘anyseat’ award) has gone some way to establishing a direct value of the points (the cash fare is directly converted to a points equivalent).

If Qantas was in breach of their terms and conditions, and the reinstatement of the account was not an option, I’m confident that a cost equivalent could be worked out. Let’s consider Dr Dao... he may never want to step foot on a United plane again, or have anything to do with the United miles program. Pretty sure if he’d had a million points the courts could have worked out a fair value to compensate for being unable to use the points. Why should the airline profit from seizing the points?

 

[juddles]

All this stuff about value of QFF points is probably not very helpful to the OP, or anyone. The OP says they don't even know why their account is frozen.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

All this stuff about value of QFF points is probably not very helpful to the OP, or anyone. The OP says they don't even know why their account is frozen.

The OP asked for advice and suggestions about how to engage with Qantas... whether a debt collector would be suitable.

The options provided in return were either a claim for damages, or reinstatement of the account.

In that respect, discussion over a monetary conversion would be helpful to the OP, otherwise they’d be turning up to a lawyer without knowing what they wanted.

While qantas engaging with the OP may ultimately be a better course of action in that the OP will know whether or not to pursue the airline, if that doesn’t happen, they need something on which to base a claim.

 

[juddles]

The OP asked for advice and suggestions about how to engage with Qantas... whether a debt collector would be suitable.

The options provided in return were either a claim for damages, or reinstatement of the account.

In that respect, discussion over a monetary conversion would be helpful to the OP, otherwise they’d be turning up to a lawyer without knowing what they wanted.

While qantas engaging with the OP may ultimately be a better course of action in that the OP will know whether or not to pursue the airline, if that doesn’t happen, they need something on which to base a claim.

Yes, but I think we all know that such things as debt collectors, etc, are completely incorrect at this point, and leading the new member up that path is not really sound advice....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yes, but I think we all know that such things as debt collectors, etc, are completely incorrect at this point, and leading the new member up that path is not really sound advice....

No one did. Two other courses of action were recommended. Either small claims (for a $$ amount) or the magistrates court for reinstatement of the account.

There were also attempts to encourage the OP to try further engagement with Qantas to try and sort it out before either of the above two.

 

[RooFlyer]

The word 'revert' was new to me, too, at least in this use. But now you really got me interested: what's that "high professional level"? What's the definition of it, please? And what are the alternatives to it?

My casual shorthand for people who, due to seniority or type of work (eg lawyers, investment bankers), address each other somewhat formally - rather than "I'l get back to you", its "I'll revert.", or "Please revert by close of business." It might also develop within a certain business or practice - if the boss uses it, the lower-downs might too.

 

[juddles]

No one did. Two other courses of action were recommended. Either small claims (for a $$ amount) or the magistrates court for reinstatement of the account.

There were also attempts to encourage the OP to try further engagement with Qantas to try and sort it out before either of the above two.

But such suggestions as small claims and a magistrates court should be known to be completely inapplicable in the OP's circumstances. Their account has been frozen and they have not yet ascertained why from Qantas. It potentially could be an issue as tiny as a PIN fault. But more likely IMHO it is frozen as Qantas has seen some sort of activity that warrants their investigation. Small claims and magistrates would not go near such a situation at this point, and this just wastes everyones time, especially the OP's.

I see all this discussion of valuation of QFF points to be something that is done so members can argue their own concerns and opinions about the Qantas FF program in general, not in a specific sense that assists the OP.

I even offerred (in post 21?) to help the OP reach Qantas, but that offer was not taken up......

 

[MEL_Traveller]

But such suggestions as small claims and a magistrates court should be known to be completely inapplicable in the OP's circumstances. Their account has been frozen and they have not yet ascertained why from Qantas. It potentially could be an issue as tiny as a PIN fault. But more likely IMHO it is frozen as Qantas has seen some sort of activity that warrants their investigation. Small claims and magistrates would not go near such a situation at this point, and this just wastes everyones time, especially the OP's.

I see all this discussion of valuation of QFF points to be something that is done so members can argue their own concerns and opinions about the Qantas FF program in general, not in a specific sense that assists the OP.

I even offerred (in post 21?) to help the OP reach Qantas, but that offer was not taken up......

If you have a breakdown in a contractual relationship, taking legal action can be a way to resolve it. Either to give the matter traction at the right level or place within a company, or to force the matter.

Courts routinely deal with matters where there has been this sort of breakdown in communication. The OP states they have reached out, but they’re getting nothing in return. What other avenue do you suggest they take?

While I acknowledge you made the offer to contact Qantas on behalf of the OP, this may not suit everyone, particularly if being asked to divulge personal details.

 

[juddles]

If you have a breakdown in a contractual relationship, taking legal action can be a way to resolve it. Either to give the matter traction at the right level or place within a company, or to force the matter.

Courts routinely deal with matters where there has been this sort of breakdown in communication. The OP states they have reached out, but they’re getting nothing in return. What other avenue do you suggest they take?

While I acknowledge you made the offer to contact Qantas on behalf of the OP, this may not suit everyone, particularly if being asked to divulge personal details.

I know that my offer may not suit - but it is what I could offer. I could just as easily sit back and ignore their situation. The same way they stated that they were not in the game to try to justify their trust, so am I. I offerred that in strict confidence - something I have a perfect record in.

To finish this involvement in the OP's thread, they need to speak to Qantas. To the people I have said in earlier posts. Everything else is just wasting time and enhancing the negatives at this point. And I do feel for the OP - I know that getting through to the right person in a big company like Qantas is a hard thing these days.

 

[juddles]

I know that my offer may not suit - but it is what I could offer. I could just as easily sit back and ignore their situation. The same way they stated that they were not in the game to try to justify their trust, so am I. I offerred that in strict confidence - something I have a perfect record in.

To finish this involvement in the OP's thread, they need to speak to Qantas. To the people I have said in earlier posts. Everything else is just wasting time and enhancing the negatives at this point. And I do feel for the OP - I know that getting through to the right person in a big company like Qantas is a hard thing these days.

Must add (cheekily) that the Op did not revert to me.

 

[dajop]

And I do feel for the OP - I know that getting through to the right person in a big company like Qantas is a hard thing these days.

This is exactly what the ACA is there for. Forget the legal route, forgot banging you head against the QF brickwall. OP, just go straight to the advocate.

IMO, it's a cheap way for the airlines to pool their resources to employ someone who can problem solve, is connected to the right people (without having the drones connected who might refer everything) and understands logic and reason ..... whilst they employ more and more drones in customer service, and less and less of the problem solving type.

I am quite surprised that everyone is either on the side of a) following up with QF again and again and again or b) taking legal action/small claims. I'd expect better from AFF.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Quite right. There was that third option. Which would be a sensible starting point.

 

[juddles]

This is exactly what the ACA is there for. Forget the legal route, forgot banging you head against the QF brickwall. OP, just go straight to the advocate.

IMO, it's a cheap way for the airlines to pool their resources to employ someone who can problem solve, is connected to the right people (without having the drones connected who might refer everything) and understands logic and reason ..... whilst they employ more and more drones in customer service, and less and less of the problem solving type.

I am quite surprised that everyone is either on the side of a) following up with QF again and again and again or b) taking legal action/small claims. I'd expect better from AFF.

I agree the ACA is the way if you are stone-walled. But has the OP sufferred this? At the risk of sounding tedious, what has the OP actually done in trying to contact Qantas? They mentioned some "phone calls" where they spoke to someone who did not have an answer and would "get back to them". And a tirade of emails and legal threats that according to them have netted zero response.

If Qantas was stonewalling me I would walk into an airport and make a physical presence. Nicely of course. But I am sure that I would get some sort of answer. The OP appears to have been making their attempts for months. I just cannot understand that they have, according to themselves, absolutely no info.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I agree the ACA is the way if you are stone-walled. But has the OP sufferred this? At the risk of sounding tedious, what has the OP actually done in trying to contact Qantas? They mentioned some "phone calls" where they spoke to someone who did not have an answer and would "get back to them". And a tirade of emails and legal threats that according to them have netted zero response.

If Qantas was stonewalling me I would walk into an airport and make a physical presence. Nicely of course. But I am sure that I would get some sort of answer. The OP appears to have been making their attempts for months. I just cannot understand that they have, according to themselves, absolutely no info.

‘Tirade’ means ‘a long angry speech of criticism or accusation’. I’m not sure I got the same impression from the OP that you did.

They made some calls, sent eight emails. Sent a letter of demand.

Have we seen the contents of the emails to know they constitute a ‘tirade’?

 

[sjk]

If Qantas was stonewalling me I would walk into an airport and make a physical presence.

Seems like idiosyncratically and comically bad advice to me if dealing with a QFF problem.

And you want free speech for all, but feel this urge to go all Inspector juddles on first-time posters if they don’t meet your standards and arbitrary deadlines? Seems just a tad contradictory to me.

 

[dajop]

I agree the ACA is the way if you are stone-walled. But has the OP sufferred this? At the risk of sounding tedious, what has the OP actually done in trying to contact Qantas? They mentioned some "phone calls" where they spoke to someone who did not have an answer and would "get back to them". And a tirade of emails and legal threats that according to them have netted zero response.

These are exactly the circumstances in which to contact ACA.

The process requires you first attempt to follow the process outlined in Qantas Customer Charter, which includes contacting Qantas Customer Care team via Customwr Care form , calling 1300 659 161 or via twitter. Failure to obtain a satisfactory (or in this case any) response will then allow the customer to use the ACA process.

If were the OP I would call Qantas one last time - using the number above - and the ask for a Complaint Referenxe Number. If no feeedback within 5 days, follow up again. If no outcome then, all sweet to go with ACA.

Although it seems the OP has already attempted enough times to get a resolution that they can answer the ACA “screening” questions in such a manner to lead to lodgement of a formal complaint.