How much harder to get an AA mile versus a QF point? (for an Oz resident)

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amaroo

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Sorry serfty but this thread was discussing earn/burn well before I posted.

By the way I don't disagree with you regarding value but there are many factors involved and no one size fits all.

I can't see how you can discuss value between two programs without comparing the cost :confused:

For some AA is a clear winner....for others it's worthless. Restricting the conversation to one view is counterproductive in regards to the question asked by the OP.
 

JohnK

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

If given a choice between 100,000 QFF points and xx_ AA miles, how large would xx_ have to be to make you opt for the AA miles?

It's really not that difficult a concept, and has nothing to do with what those miles cost originally or the relative worth of the programs in their entirety.

It's not so much "restricting the conversation" as trying to cut out irrelevant noise, futile though that may be.
So what you are saying is I should spend ~$56 extra per flight to earn 500 AA miles instead of 800 QFF points. And after 70 flights I would have spent ~$3,920 extra to earn 35,000 miles which is enough for a 1 way in business SYD-BKK + ~AUD90 in taxes.

For those 70 flights I would have earnt 56,000 QFF points which is just short of the 60,000 QFF points required for a one-way in business. Taxes and surcharges are high though at ~$300-$400.

In essence I would need to spend ~$3,920 to save $300-$400 in taxes.

So you want to cut out my irrelevant noise? Just as well I do my own calculations and do not rely on the experts to give me advice.
 

serfty

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

...

If both were earned via CC (assuming this is how the OP earned them - given, it's Cove...a decent assumption) AA loses its appeal pretty quickly....unless you've got a LOTFAP CC to supersize the dividend ;)
There's is a thread nearly 10 years old now, something like "the great AAdvantage challenge".

In it, it was mentioned it may be better to convert AX ~67000 MR points to 20018 SPG and then to 25000 AA. I calculated at the time back then and still believe, that at the time, QFF was better.

Now you only need 40000 to convert to 25000 SPG (Promos not withstanding) and IMHO, since July 1st, the redemption value of 25000 AAdvantage mile exceeds the redemption value of 40000 QFF points.

If you can achieve an AA Platinum challenge (A $1700 PE fare SYD-HKG return will do the trick) and the minimum earn plus status bonus on AAdvantage gives 1000 points on those O, Q, N, S fares between MEL and SYD. Not E - one just needs to suck up those 800 QFF points to put with EDR earn.
 

amaroo

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

There's is a thread nearly 10 years old now, something like "the great AAdvantage challenge".

In it, it was mentioned it may be better to convert AX ~67000 MR points to 20018 SPG and then to 25000 AA. I calculated at the time back then and still believe, that at the time, QFF was better.

Now you only need 40000 to convert to 25000 SPG (Promos not withstanding) and IMHO, since July 1st, the redemption value of 25000 AAdvantage mile exceeds the redemption value of 40000 QFF points.

If you can achieve an AA Platinum challenge (A $1700 PE fare SYD-HKG return will do the trick) and the minimum earn plus status bonus on AAdvantage gives 1000 points on those O, Q, N, S fares between MEL and SYD. Not E - one just needs to suck up those 800 QFF points to put with EDR earn.

Pity ATO induced bounties don't work for this equation....BTW happy to be corrected if I've got this part wrong! (not interested in 0.5P/$)

IIRC the challenge is a once only affair.....after the initial sugar hit - you're going to have maintain it the hard way. There is also the 4 x AA flights a year to take into consideration.
 

straitman

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

So what you are saying is I should spend ~$56 extra per flight to earn 500 AA miles instead of 800 QFF points. And after 70 flights I would have spent ~$3,920 extra to earn 35,000 miles which is enough for a 1 way in business SYD-BKK + ~AUD90 in taxes.

For those 70 flights I would have earnt 56,000 QFF points which is just short of the 60,000 QFF points required for a one-way in business. Taxes and surcharges are high though at ~$300-$400.

In essence I would need to spend ~$3,920 to save $300-$400 in taxes.

So you want to cut out my irrelevant noise? Just as well I do my own calculations and do not rely on the experts to give me advice.
No disagreement with your calculations John but I stick to my original comment that 2:1 sounds like a reasonable average for AA miles to QF points and also my comment that it is very route dependant.

My comments were based purely on the thought that if I had the points what were they worth. There was no consideration about earning in my statements. If earn is included then what you have said is correct for your example but the answer can be quite different for different routes.

At the same time the confuser in the discussion is that you can buy a large number of AA miles but not a large number of QF points. If you buy AA miles and then use them they can often (but not always) be very good value compared to the equivalent purchased ticket. An example is that to buy AA miles to fly MEL (or SYD) to BKK and return is considerably dearer to buy than an economy ticket but only about half the cost of a business ticket.

Summary is that one hat does not fit all and every situation needs to be looked at individually.
 
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serfty

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Pity ATO induced bounties don't work for this equation....BTW happy to be corrected if I've got this part wrong! (not interested in 0.5P/$)

IIRC the challenge is a once only affair.....after the initial sugar hit - you're going to have maintain it the hard way. There is also the 4 x AA flights a year to take into consideration.

Sure - I put my ATO spend points elsewhere ... at the moment to QFF. However, I can only generate around 25K a year through that. With other spend I can generate somewhat more than 100K MR points PA, so the SPG transfer is high on my list.

It has been noted that everyone's circumstance is different - so YMMV, especially when it come to earn.

As for the challenge, it's not once only - although you can't do it in successive years, anecdotes indicate success every second or third year.

However the fact does not change that with 160,000 AA points one can generally go a lot further, more comfortably and for less additional expense than with 160,000 QFF points (or even 35K).

So for me 50% more value referred to in the OP is lowballing it somewhat.
 
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cove

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Yes we have 2 cards so that 200,000 AA miles was the start. Then I put some land tax,ATO,green grocer and restaurants in Australia on it. Getting about 0.93/0.94 AA miles per dollar has me cycling money into the US card regularly. They give a "true" exchange rate at Citi in the US so it has been really good fun paying the bills and reloading as our limits in total are just over $60k USD. London pound expenses produced 1.7 AA miles per pound and with the brilliant exchange rate so I won't bother with an English credit card.
 

diningdecadence

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Agreed but you are not comparing like for like.

Que? Isn't that exactly what's being compared?

your reliance on an E class domestic fare eg seems...limited given the 4-5 different intl route suggestions provided.

syd-lax is another example where both miles and $ required are less with AA than QF on the same flight.

perhaps the suggestion is that the differential is greater on international legs than domestic ones.

Personally I would jump at a card that offers a straight convert to AA
 

JohnK

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Que? Isn't that exactly what's being compared?
No. I can earn QFF points much quicker and easier and cheaper than AA miles. It means nothing that 1 AA mile is more valuable than 1 QFF point at face value. Totally irrelevant as no one is going to come to you and say would you like 100,000 AA miles or 100,000 QFF points. Are they?

your reliance on an E class domestic fare eg seems...limited given the 4-5 different intl route suggestions provided.
My reliance? Everyone of my flights SYD-BNE books into 'E' class. AA is definitely not a one size fits all.

And by that I am not defending QFF either.

syd-lax is another example where both miles and $ required are less with AA than QF on the same flight.

perhaps the suggestion is that the differential is greater on international legs than domestic ones.

Personally I would jump at a card that offers a straight convert to AA
That is OK too.

It is all about swings and roundabouts. Some of my flights might earn more with AA and some will earn more with Qantas.

Some people wrongly get the impression I am clueless when it comes to FF programs and all I know is how to defend QFF. Wrong. I have done my research.

Forget Finnair as status is almost impossible.

Forget BA. See above.

Forget Marco Polo. See above and even more impossible with the goal reset as each tier is attained.

Forget AA. I don't travel to the USA for the 4 sectors I need and I am not going to play FF program musical chairs with my bookings to earn a few miles to save on taxes.

I have learned how to manipulate earn in the FF program of choice. The availability should be exactly the same as AA. And as I am able to earn more on QFF this should offset the higher taxes and surcharges. All I need to do is find the time to use those points.

As was said earlier YMMV but my views and opinion shouldn't be suppressed because some people do not agree with it.
 

amaroo

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

........

The only pity is lack of direct AA earn on credit cards for those based in Aus. Still, there are other ways to earn for example I've earnt 75k AA miles from Rocketmiles this year.

Agreed. If I had direct CC earn (incl ATO) I'd be directing the rivers of gold that way. Alas, I can't - therefore, QF is the clear winner for me. The real competition is SQ...still deciding on that one.
 

amaroo

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Again, it seems we are confusing value with cost.

.............

It's very simple to understand!

It's like saying you paid for something in one currency and then start comparing the value in another.

When I can access a couple of hundred thousand AA points via CC sign-on bonuses (in a week) + ATO dividend every month - AA will be good value. As post #7 clearly indicates http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-much-more-valuable-aa-61894.html#post1089573
 

burmans

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

It's very simple to understand!

It's like saying you paid for something in one currency and then start comparing the value in another.

When I can access a couple of hundred thousand AA points via CC sign-on bonuses (in a week) + ATO dividend every month - AA will be good value. As post #7 clearly indicates http://www.australianfrequentflyer....-much-more-valuable-aa-61894.html#post1089573
All post #7 indicate is that you find it hard to get AA points, I find it hard to find diamonds in my back yard too but that doesn't stop them from being valuable. The time of this post is "How much more valuable is an AA point versus a QF point" not "How hard is it to get AA points?" despite people desire to divert it to the latter.

I don't disagree AA points are hard(er) to obtain but it certainly doesn't diminish my desire to get them!
 

amaroo

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

All post #7 indicate is that you find it hard to get AA points, I find it hard to find diamonds in my back yard too but that doesn't stop them from being valuable. The time of this post is "How much more valuable is an AA point versus a QF point" not "How hard is it to get AA points?" despite people desire to divert it to the latter.

I don't disagree AA points are hard(er) to obtain but it certainly doesn't diminish my desire to get them!

Incorrect. They are not hard to acquire - they just cost more ;)
 

burmans

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Incorrect. They are not hard to acquire - they just cost more ;)
Well they should cost more if they are more valuable! That's just basic economic theory.
 

serfty

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Incorrect. They are not hard to acquire - they just cost more ;)
Depends how you travel.

To cherry pick - QF PE SYD-HKG return for ~AUD1550 earns 13,750 RDM (An AA Plat earns 27,000).
 

ProggerPete

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

No. I can earn QFF points much quicker and easier and cheaper than AA miles. It means nothing that 1 AA mile is more valuable than 1 QFF point at face value. Totally irrelevant as no one is going to come to you and say would you like 100,000 AA miles or 100,000 QFF points. Are they?
Talk about how easy it is to earn a QF vs an AA point is what is totally irrelevant. Would you also argue that a regular postage stamp has a higher value than an inverted jenny because regular stamps are easier to obtain?

If you could earn the same amount of AA miles as you currently earn in QF miles would you switch to AA? If the answer is yes then you value AA points more, if no then you value QF points more.
 

Supersonic Swinger

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

If you could earn the same amount of AA miles as you currently earn in QF miles would you switch to AA? If the answer is yes then you value AA points more, if no then you value QF points more.

Exactly. To put it another way, if you have 10,000 Hilton Hhonors points which you can convert to 1,500 AA miles or 1,500 QF points, which would you do? And do you set your Hilton "Points + Miles" setting to Aadvantage or QFF?
 

JohnK

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

If you could earn the same amount of AA miles as you currently earn in QF miles would you switch to AA? If the answer is yes then you value AA points more, if no then you value QF points more.
Not easy to answer.

Why? For now status is more important to me and it makes sense to accumulate QFF points.

P.S. I am not defending Qantas or QFF. The situation is different for everyone and is not as clear cut as some people think.
 

amaroo

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Exactly. To put it another way, if you have 10,000 Hilton Hhonors points which you can convert to 1,500 AA miles or 1,500 QF points, which would you do? And do you set your Hilton "Points + Miles" setting to Aadvantage or QFF?

In the example above I would direct the points to the scheme where I generated the most miles/points. I dunno, maybe if I flew more I might have a different view. However, even with QF LTG in the bag I'm still loathed to open accounts and start distributing miles/points willy-nilly.

There is no doubt QFF is a dog of a scheme - they know it and we know it. However, the one ace up their sleeve is access to free or very cheap point generation. Flyers that can live in the FF sweet spot are in mile heaven .... access to cheap AA miles via an ATO payment - beautiful!

It's all interesting stuff!
 
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burmans

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Re: How much more valuable is an AA mile versus a QF point?

Honesty, I don't understand the tone against members posting alternative views to the same old humdrum view:confused: .
Well its not really a tone, you guys are trying to pick holes in the AA over QF argument, we are trying to pick holes in your alternative view argument. Am not really see why you see this as "putting you down" or a "tone" when we are just taking the opposite side to you. Sure our argument tries to pick holes in yours(which it appears you and JohnK see as personal), but the same applies to your arguments.

PS. Agree with the QFF as being in some cases very easy to get, still doesnt mean I see much value in them (as per title of the thread).
 
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