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Help with ACIR26

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steven s

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May 10, 2006
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Hi, I am requesting help from the experts please!!!

I am looking at the following flights.

CNS-BNE, BNE-SYD-LAX, LAX-JFK, LGA-STL-LAS, LAX-HKG, HKG-SYD-BNE.

TA tells me that I cannot stop in BNE, but I definately did this on same ticket two years ago, is this correct information or incorrect???

Thanks for the help in advance!
 

NM

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steven s said:
Thanks for the help in advance!
I believe you can end the journey in BNE, but the distance calculation will include the mileage back to the point of origin. That will take it over 26,000 miles so cannot be done.
 

NM

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The relevant rules will be:
OneWorld Circle Pacific said:
TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE AT ANY POINT FOR WHICH A
FARE IS PUBLISHED AND MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME
POINT OR ANY POINT IN THE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. IN
NO EVENT MAY TRAVEL CONTINUE BEYOND THE ORIGINAL
POINT OF ORIGIN.
and
OneWorld Circle Pacific said:
* SURFACE TRAVEL IS PERMITTED AT PASSENGER*S
EXPENSE, AND IS INCLUDED IN THE TOTAL MILEAGE.
You may also fall foul of the stopover rules:
OneWorld Circle Pacific said:
A MAXIMUM OF ONE STOPOVER IN COUNTRY OF
ORIGIN.

A MAXIMUM OF TWO FREE STOPOVERS PER
REGION /SWP/ASIA/NORTH AMERICA/SOUTH
AMERICA/.

A SURFACE SEGMENT IS CONSIDERED 1
STOPOVER

ONLY 1 STOP PERMITTED AT ANY
POINT. ADDITIONAL STOPOVERS
MAY NOT BE PURCHASED.
I assume from the way you grouped the routing that you intend a stopover in BNE on the outound. That will be your one permitted in the country of origin. The final "surface". Ending in BNE instead of the point of origin may also be seen as a stopover (not sure on how they will treat that, though - could argue either way).

You also have 3 stopovers noted for North America, so expect to pay extra for the third one. Used to be US$75 but I am not sure if there has been a price change in the last few years. This is of course assuming they see the LAX stopover and the LAS-LAX surface segment (and hence stopover) as not being the same location and hence being invalid. Again I am not sure how they define "any point" in the stopover limitations of the rules.
 

Dave Noble

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NM said:
I assume from the way you grouped the routing that you intend a stopover in BNE on the outound. That will be your one permitted in the country of origin. The final "surface". Ending in BNE instead of the point of origin may also be seen as a stopover (not sure on how they will treat that, though - could argue either way).
I think that the rule that states that the journey can end anywhere in the country of origin will cover this and so will not cause a surface segment to CNS

Dave
 

NM

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Dave Noble said:
I think that the rule that states that the journey can end anywhere in the country of origin will cover this and so will not cause a surface segment to CNS

Dave
Even without including the unflown BNE-CNS in the mileage, Great Circle Mapper still shows the total distance as 26,094 which exceeds the 26,000 limit. Now the airlines may calculate the distances slightly different to the GCM tool, but that may still be causing a problem. Remember that LAS-LAX is included in the calculations even though not flown.
 

steven s

Junior Member
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I did not realise that the LAS -LAX would be included!!!! But that aside your thoughts if I can change somethings around and get under the 26k I should be able to fly from CNS - BNE?????
 

steven s

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Dave

Now with what NM has raised the LAS - LAX is not included in this, and it clearly needs to be according to the rules he has shown!

Steven
 

Dave Noble

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steven s said:
I did not realise that the LAS -LAX would be included!!!! But that aside your thoughts if I can change somethings around and get under the 26k I should be able to fly from CNS - BNE?????
As long as you stay within 26k then I think that you can start in CNS and finish somewhere else in Australia

Dave
 

NM

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Dave Noble said:
As long as you stay within 26k then I think that you can start in CNS and finish somewhere else in Australia

Dave
Agree. I cannot see anything in the xCIRxx rules that say the return to point of origin must be included. I think I must have been remembering the rules from xGLOBxx fare where that is included.
 

serfty

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NM said:
... You also have 3 stopovers noted for North America, so expect to pay extra for the third one. Used to be US$175 but I am not sure if there has been a price change in the last few years. ...
Code:
--- ADDITIONAL STOPS PERMITTED AT AN ADDITIONAL CHARGE PER 
STOPOVER OF USD75.00/CAD115.00 -
 

NM

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Thanks Serfty. Yes, US$75 it is (and was when I had to pay it on a flight a few years back).
 

parsonstrish

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I'm unclear with the info. re $75 for extra flt. in US. My friend booked the 26,000 rtw. She booked YUL and JFK in nth. america. She advised t/a she wanted to fly to cleveland and perhaps savanah. Is she allowed to get tickets at the $75 per trip, altho. this takes her over the 26,000. cheers, trish
 

NM

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parsonstrish said:
I'm unclear with the info. re $75 for extra flt. in US. My friend booked the 26,000 rtw. She booked YUL and JFK in nth. america. She advised t/a she wanted to fly to cleveland and perhaps savanah. Is she allowed to get tickets at the $75 per trip, altho. this takes her over the 26,000. cheers, trish
The US$75 is for an extra stopover, not an extra flight. A stopover is defined as spending more than 24 hours from scheduled arrival until scheduled departure at the same airport. You can have as many "flights" as you like up to a maximum of 20 segments in total. but you can only have 2 stopovers in any continent (i.e. Australia/NZ, Asia, North America) and only one stopover in the continent of origin. And the total mileage cannot exceed 22,000 miles for the xCIR22 fare, 26,000 miles for the xCIR26 fare etc.
 

steven s

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Dave Noble said:
As long as you stay within 26k then I think that you can start in CNS and finish somewhere else in Australia

Dave
TA is still claiming that it cannot be done, starting in CNS and ending in BNE. I have definately done this before and not sure why a different TA is claiming I cannot do that!
 

Dave Noble

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steven s said:
TA is still claiming that it cannot be done, starting in CNS and ending in BNE. I have definately done this before and not sure why a different TA is claiming I cannot do that!
Why not just bypass the TA and go to AA ATW desk?

Dave
 

NM

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steven s said:
TA is still claiming that it cannot be done, starting in CNS and ending in BNE. I have definately done this before and not sure why a different TA is claiming I cannot do that!
Ask the TA to email you the fare rule that states it cannot be done. I have found some TAs will just quote what they think are the rules without actually looking it up and checking. Then when they look it up to email it to you they suddenly find that the rules are not as they first thought.

Let them know you have read through the fare rules and cannot find anything that prohibits your requested routing.
 

Kiwi Flyer

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NM said:
Ask the TA to email you the fare rule that states it cannot be done. I have found some TAs will just quote what they think are the rules without actually looking it up and checking. Then when they look it up to email it to you they suddenly find that the rules are not as they first thought.
Yup. I've also had TA's quote me from old rules that hadn't been updated for the latest changes. :rolleyes:
 

Jetsetter

Junior Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2007
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Airlines in their infinte wisdom love to make their fares complicated. From what I can determine these are the main sticking points of the itinerary you are suggesting - assuming you are wanting a stop in LAX on the way out and a surface sector between LAS-LAX on the way back.
1. You are only entitled to ONE stop at any one point.
From fare rule: - ONLY ONE STOP PERMITTED AT ANY POINT
- DISEMBARKATION AT ONE POINT AND RE-EMBARKATION AT A SUBSEQUENT POINT ENROUTE COUNTS AS A SINGLE STOPOVER.

Because LAS-LAX is counted as a stopover (surface sectors are counted as allowable stopovers) then i see LAX being considered as a stopover twice.

2.The issue of returning to a different city in country of origin appears ok with the following ruling:
TRAVEL MAY ORIGINATE AT ANY POINT FOR WHICH FARES ARE PUBLISHED AND MUST TERMINATE AT THE SAME POINT OR AN INTERMEDIATE POINT IN THE
COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. THE POINT OF ORIGIN MAY BE RETRANSITTED ONCE PROVIDED NO STOPOVER IS TAKEN. EXCEPTION: ORIGIN-DESTINATION SURFACE SEGMENT PERMITTED BETWEEN LAX AND YVR.

3. The total ticketed point mileage for the routing you have listed is 26,078 - 78miles over the permitted allowance.

4. A MAX OF ONE STOP IN COUNTRY OF ORIGIN So you can have Brisbane outbound and transit Sydney to Los Angeles and you would have to terminate at Sydney on the return.
The BIG ISSUE here and why it may be a sticking point is that because you have already used Brisbane as a stopover in the country of origin, returing to it as your destination will also count as an additional stopover - Hence -its NOT allowed. And you are not allowed to purchase additional stops in country of origin. I have seen rules like this before and the interpretation here is if your destination also gets called a stopover. Its not specifically listed and my experience tells me if it is not listed, it cannot be applied.

5. While its impossible on this fare to allow more than 1 stop in country of origin, if you end the journey at SYD, mileage is 25,610 and then buy a MEL/SYD.

6. To get aorund the LAX problem, change the departure point from the USA to SFO (airport is 100% better anyway but CX times not that great) and pay the additional stopover cost of US$75.
The routing will fit in mileage.Highlighted is TRANSFER (no stop)
CNS/BNE/SYD/LAX/NYC/STL/LAS-SFO/HKG/SYD - 25,467 miles
Fare would require 2 additional USA stopovers @ US$75 - and no further would be permitted.

Hope this helps in some way.
Cheers
 
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