Help needed with Circle Asia and South West Pacific Fare | Australian Frequent Flyer
Australian Frequent Flyer

Welcome to Australia's leading independent Frequent Flyer and Travel Resource since 1998!
Our site contains tons of information that will improve your travel experience.

Joining AFF is fast, simple & absolutely free - register now and take immediate advantage of these great BENEFITS.

Once registered, this box will disappear. And you will see fewer advertisements :)

Help needed with Circle Asia and South West Pacific Fare

Status
Not open for further replies.

Timtammi

AFF Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
736
Flights
My Map
Hi there all

I'm hoping some of you experts out there can help me. We have recently expanded our business into Asia and we need to make an extensive run through in September to visit customers. This is going to be a regular trip so I want to work out the best way to do it, minimising cost and maximising QF ff points and status credits.

The cities we need to visit are SIN, KUL, SGN, HKG, TPE, PVG, PEK, ICN, MNL and it will all be ex MEL. We are not tied into any real order but want to avoid unnecessary flying unless it really makes sense from a FF SC point of view.

I came across the above fair which I think will work and I have signed up for Expert Flyer to help me. I have tried a few different combinations but am having trouble making it all work. I know the max is 8 segments (what counts as a segment, if a flight is not direct but goes via a another city is that 2 segments? or is each flight number a segment?) I also see another rule that says you can only buy 5 segments initially (the extra 3 are extra) and they cant be bought in country of origin? How does this work?

This will all be done in economy I'm afraid, thats all we can afford, small business and all. It will be done in mid-late September.

Once we work out an itinerary that works for us we will probably do it 2-3 times per year. At the moment Japan is not part of it but from September next year it will be.

Any suggestions to point me in the right direction would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Timtammi
 

Dave Noble

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
6,419
If you book a through flight such as SYD-LHR on QF2 , this would be 1 segment even though the plane stops in BKK . If you book it as 2 sectors SYD-BKK BKK-LHR, then this would be 2 segments

Looking at the fare rules, it says that a maximum of 8 flight segments are permitted; I cannot see anything that suggests that only 5 can be purchased initially

The detailed rules are given at http://www.oneworld.com/content/library/circle_asia&swp_24jul2007.pdf

Based on 8 sectors max, I think it will be hard to fit all those locations in during 1 trip without purchasing other sectors

Dave
 

jasonja3

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
368
As I understand it (and I am no expert) each flight number will count as a segment, others here will be able to clarify this.

Segments are limited to 8, no additional are available. What you will need to purchase is additional stopovers at US$100ea as the 17000m fare only has 5, and the 13000m fare three..

Because you are limited to 8 segments, I would be looking to purchase some seperate tickets to make up the additional segments required. eg hkg-tpe-mnl-hkg or sin-kul-sin, then hkg-mnl-hkg. Remember also that a surface sector is counter as a segment.

You will find some difficulty getting around China on Oneworld, and remember that Cathay code shares (ie: CX flight number but code share with KA)do not earn points. The problem will go later in the year when Dragon Air joins Oneworld.

Using EF is a good start to working out your intin. I have attached the Oneworld fare rules for the Circle Asia fare. There is also a Star Alliance circle asia fare which might suit you, but I know very little about this. Once again other here may be able to help.

Good luck!!
 
Last edited:

Timtammi

AFF Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
736
Flights
My Map
Thanks for that guys. The detailed rules are helpful too. I did realise we have more than 8 sectors so knew we would have to buy some extra tickets to make it work. I thought if we made it the shortest most obvious ones then we would minimise extra costs.

Does anyone have any suggestions about suggested routings to include the above cities and work (with minimal extras) for the above fare? Or any other fare that anyone could suggest?

We do prefer to stay with OW airlines if possible. We are QF Bronze and Silver now and want to maximise our chance to getting as high as possible, plus we are QP members and like to be able to use the lounge as much as possible. I know right now we cant unless we are actually flying QF but if we can get higher in OW status we will be able to access the other OW lounges as well.

We work very hard in our own business and trips like this are exhausting, the above itinerary is going to done in approx 2 weeks with multiple meetings in each city.

Thanks again

Timtammi
 

simongr

Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
14,229
Have you had a look at mileage monkey

MileageMonkey 0.95013

If you play around with the point-to-point option it could give you a route.

You could tyhen download the oneworld timetables program and you could look up flights that fit into the routing.

It will be a laborious process but shouldnt be too hard :)
 

Evan

Established Member
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
3,168
Also Cathay (CX) have some multistop around Asia fares i have used in the past, books into L class if you check in expert flyer and L class is usually reasonably available.

I am not exactly sure what the actual fare is called but you don;t need to cly only CX, i have included QF legs in the fare.
Seem to remember something like Asia pass ??

E
 

Timtammi

AFF Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
736
Flights
My Map
Thanks again everyone for the input.

Could someone who understands better than I do how to interpret fare rules please look at this and see if it would work for the Circle Asia and South West Explorer fare (see fare conditions very kindly attached by previous poster).

MEL-SIN
SIN-KUL then KUL-SGN (sidetrip not included in above fare)
SGN-HKG then HKG-MNL-HKG (sidetrip not included in above fare)
HKG-PVG then PVG-PEK (sidetrip not included in above fare)
PEK-SYD
SYD-MEL (not sure if this can be included or not under fare rules).

I count this as 5 stopovers (rules say where a passengers disembarks at one point and re-emabrks at another point it counts as single stopover) and 5 or 6 segments (depending on whether you can include Sydney).

Mileage I come up with 12955 using the great circle mapper and including surface segments between KUL-SGN and PVG-PEK so it would fall under the 13000 required for the lower fare with one stopover requiring to be purchased at an extra $100 USD?

Have I missed anything? Misinterpreted something? It was hard to find flights that fitted and were OW and this also gives 2 long QF ones thereby maximising ff points - PEK-SYD and MEL-SIN. Most of the rest that would fall into the fare would be on CX and I think would earn .5 points?

What about status credits how would that work?

Thanks in advance

Timtammi
 

jasonja3

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
368
Timtammi said:
Ooops, just realised I've left out Taipei.

*sigh*

Back to the drawing board...
In TPE Flounge at the moment in the middle of a Circle Asia Fare....

Apart from leaving out TPE, your itin. works, so you are on the right track.

The hard part of visting Taiwan as there are no direct flights between Taiwan and China, so you really need to route through Japan or Korea after visiting China, or include TPE as a seperate ticket to your main fare because TPE and HKG are different regions. This has been a difficulty of mine also.

I think you are correct with the CX points and your SC earn will be discount economy

Let us know how you go with your revised itin.
 

Timtammi

AFF Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
736
Flights
My Map
Hi there Jasonja3

How have you found the fare? What was your itinerary? Thanks for the tips too!

I think I may have got something now that really works - at least I hope so.

This itinerary misses Manila, I just couldnt make that work but its probably the least important place to visit on this trip so can be added in on another one.

MEL-SIN, SIN-KUL, (SIDETRIP-KUL-SGN), SGN-HKG, (SIDETRIP- HKG-PVG-PEK-HKG), HKG-TPE, TPE-ICN, ICN-KIX, KIX-HND, NRT-MEL


Anyway, there are a few more things added (Japan - customer is in Osaka but need to fly home from Tokyo to make it work). And I had also forgotten Seoul as well as Taipei on my previous version (DOH!).

Does this work? Break any rules? It would have to be the 17,000 mile one (works out to 15,470 with surface segments) with 2 extra stopovers but I think thats ok.

So if it is ok does anyone have any suggestions on cheap flights for the sidetrip sectors?

Thanks for all your help
 

jasonja3

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
368
My Itin. was very simple SYD-NRT-KHH....TPE-HKG-SYD-BNE-SYD

At a quick glance looks OK to me, just one problem, you have 9 segments including your surface sector.

Have you started to look at availability of L class on these flights? This will be your next thing to determine your routing.

As for the side trips, I would do a general check on EF to see who flies these routes and start from there, also checking the usual zuji, bestflights and even China travel in Oz for PVG and PEK (note I have found Dragon Air to be the best local carrier). Search this site and I think there are a couple of threads with ticketing web sites. Just be aware, many in Asia are still paper tickets, so make sure you get them before you go!!
 

Timtammi

AFF Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
736
Flights
My Map
Thanks again.

I didn't realise that surface sectors counted as segments for the purposes of the fare rules

"Surface travel and use of other carriers between intermediate points along the circle which are not operated
by BA/CX/QF/JC/JL/JO/EG/NU is permitted at the passenger's expense and must be ticketed separately.
Mileage must be included in the MPM calculation."

I included the mileage but I can find no reference to having them count as segments - are you sure they do?

I will start looking at L availability and the extra fares I need. Luckily timing is pretty flexible so hopefully it should be ok.

Cheers



 

jasonja3

Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2005
Messages
368
Hmm,

You may be right. I will have another look at the fare rules, or maybe Dave or NM can answer this acurately.
 

Dave Noble

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 10, 2005
Messages
6,419
Timtammi said:
Thanks again.

I didn't realise that surface sectors counted as segments for the purposes of the fare rules
They don't. For the rules listed it states

A maximum of 8 flight segments are permitted for the entire journey.

so surface sectors do not count towards the 8

Dave
 

Timtammi

AFF Supporter
Joined
Jan 5, 2007
Messages
736
Flights
My Map
Thanks Dave!

So I take it my itinerary will work then? If so, woohoo! it took me ages to work it out. Although once I started to put it all into a spreadsheet it started to make it easier.

So far so good with the dates I want, seems to still be plenty of availability in L with the flights I need, still a few more to check.

Cheers

Timtammi
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Community Statistics

Threads
81,270
Messages
1,874,157
Members
49,131
Latest member
jebc
Top