Have I over-capitalised on this J reward trip?

[goldenhorn]

I'm a relative newbie in the points game, so learning heaps and loving it so far. I would love some input from some of the more experienced members...

I recently got the J class SIN-NRT-KUL on JAL so we can visit Japan for a couple of weeks in Jan 2020.

All up it cost about AUD $1,640 through buying Alaska Miles miles with the bonus and taxes for 2 pax.

I've found it more of a challenge to get J award flights to reposition to get the JAL flights. (I guess I could have gone a LCC to Asia, but really didn't want to face it).

Thanks to advice from other AFF members, I've now booked J in EK SYD-MEL-SIN on the way there - 120,000 QFF points plus about $700 taxes - 2 pax.

On the way back I've just booked SIN-BNE for the same - 120,000 QFF points and $700 in taxes - 2 pax. I booked the SIN-BNE flights because I am struggling to find anything else in J so far and was concerned nothing else might come up. But open to cancelling if I can find something else later. (I was secretly hoping for Lifemiles, F in TG home from BKK...but looks like there's no availability).

So I've spent $3,040 on flights so far and still need to pay for a flight KUL-SIN, overnight at a SIN airport hotel, then overnight at a BNE hotel, and buy flights BNE-SYD home ( should be pretty cheap one way).

So I'm wondering if I have invested too much $ in this itinerary. I still think $1500 each in J to Japan is awesome value, but maybe 240,000 points repositioning is extravagant?

If I could have got QF J awards SYD-NRT it would have been about 144,000 QF points each. But of course, no award flights were available.

Curious to know reactions. Thanks!

 

[levelnine]

The cost is quite high. As a comparison, you could have paid $3800 each to fly in Qantas J and accrue points/SCs and with only 1 stop each direction.

I also note that's an awfully circuitous route to Japan and back. Do you place a value on your time?

 

[goldenhorn]

The cost is quite high. As a comparison, you could have paid $3800 each to fly in Qantas J and accrue points/SCs and with only 1 stop each direction.

I also note that's an awfully circuitous route to Japan and back. Do you place a value on your time?

Thanks for your perspective.

Yeah, I'm concerned the cost is a bit high now, but still significantly less than $7,600 if we bought tix.

No issue with time - Jan is very quiet in my business. So will be stopping in SIN on the way there for a few days.

With this itinerary that required a repositioning flight, would you have just got the cheapest LCC to get to start point and home from end point?

 

[Melburnian1]

PR (full service legacy airline, not an LCC) recently had a sale (sadly finished) where you could have flown in J to Japan (ex BNE, SYD lie flat normally on an A321neo to MNL or best of all due to the A333 1-2-1 in J ex MEL) for about A$2700-2900 per person return. So that would have been A$5400-5800 (approx) for the two of you, not A$7600 as you suggest in the post above:

78th Anniversary Sale

Philippine Airlines' new three-cabin A330 wows with details - Runway Girl

These are Philippine Airlines’ new Airbus A321neo business class seats – Business Traveller

PR has nonstop flights ex its MNL hub to more destinations in Japan than QF (also the case to Canada, among others).

These lesser known airlines can be every bit as safe as QF and have friendlier service on board plus reasonable to excellent food, and attendants who in PR's case speak perfect English, so I encourage you to get to know these airlines by subscribing to their emails. PR is now part owned by Japan's NH but PR is not (unfortunately) in any airline alliance, though if its fares are BFOD, you save far more in cash than any benefit from accruing FF points.

 

[Quickstatus]

@goldenhorn
Do you have any Krisflyer points? or velocity points to convert to Krisflyer points?

With Krisflyer:
SYD-SIN 58000 points and $100 fee. J class
KUL-SIN-SYD 58000 points and $100 fee. J class (yes !!KUL-SIN-SYD costs the same as a SIN-SYD or vica versa)

So for 2 pax, the round trip from SYD will cost 232000 points and about $400 all up.

I cant give an answer about the value derived from spending the points or $$$$. Value is a very personal analysis. However the figures you quote are about right and not totally outrageous.

MH has a (up to) 30% J sale on at the moment with a further 6% discount if booking for 2 people on same ticket.
MH operates to NRT, and codeshares with JL as well.
You might be able to get KUL-NRT//NRT-KUL for a bit cheaper - whether MH operated or JL operated.
And again note that SYD-SIN-KUL costs the same in points as SYD-SIN with SQ

Its a lot easier to get FF seats on SQ.

Please bear in mind that Chinese New year falls on 25 January 2020. and this may affect availability.

 

[odysseus]

Thanks for your perspective.

Yeah, I'm concerned the cost is a bit high now, but still significantly less than $7,600 if we bought tix.

No issue with time - Jan is very quiet in my business. So will be stopping in SIN on the way there for a few days.

With this itinerary that required a repositioning flight, would you have just got the cheapest LCC to get to start point and home from end point?

People also talk about the value of an FF point. Earn values are usually looked at for simplicity as around 1c/point (with desirable redemption values much higher: 2c+)..

Just using the 1c/point rate, those 240,000 QF points are also worth $2400. So if you add that to the flights, you’re already at $5400, and then still have further flights to purchase. Plus as mentioned that’s quite a number of connections/flights to get there (a number of shorter legs, so less relaxing). Plus as also mentioned, you lose the extra benefits of a paid ticket.

It all comes down to what you value, but personally that would be too high a cost for achieving that objective – sorry!

As for the LCC, if spending points I'd be more inclined to focus on the longer haul journeys, rather than using LCC for long haul and business class for shorter sectors. i.e. I wouldn't usually get an LCC for a long haul flight yet then have business class short haul flights; it doesn't seem to make personal sense.

 

[goldenhorn]

PR (full service legacy airline, not an LCC) recently had a sale (sadly finished) where you could have flown in J to Japan (ex BNE, SYD lie flat normally on an A321neo to MNL or best of all due to the A333 1-2-1 in J ex MEL) for about A$2700-2900 per person return. So that would have been A$5400-5800 (approx) for the two of you, not A$7600 as you suggest in the post above:

78th Anniversary Sale

Philippine Airlines' new three-cabin A330 wows with details - Runway Girl

These are Philippine Airlines’ new Airbus A321neo business class seats – Business Traveller

PR has nonstop flights ex its MNL hub to more destinations in Japan than QF (also the case to Canada, among others).

These lesser known airlines can be every bit as safe as QF and have friendlier service on board plus reasonable to excellent food, and attendants who in PR's case speak perfect English, so I encourage you to get to know these airlines by subscribing to their emails. PR is now part owned by Japan's NH but PR is not (unfortunately) in any airline alliance, though if its fares are BFOD, you save far more in cash than any benefit from accruing FF points.

Thank you. That's great info. I am not subscribed, but will sign up now.

 

[goldenhorn]

@goldenhorn
Do you have any Krisflyer points? or velocity points to convert to Krisflyer points?

With Krisflyer:
SYD-SIN 58000 points and $100 fee. J class
KUL-SIN-SYD 58000 points and $100 fee. J class (yes !!KUL-SIN-SYD costs the same as a SIN-SYD or vica versa)

So for 2 pax, the round trip from SYD will cost 232000 points and about $400 all up.

I cant give an answer about the value derived from spending the points or $$$$. Value is a very personal analysis. However the figures you quote are about right and not totally outrageous.

MH has a (up to) 30% J sale on at the moment with a further 6% discount if booking for 2 people on same ticket.
MH operates to NRT, and codeshares with JL as well.
You might be able to get KUL-NRT//NRT-KUL for a bit cheaper - whether MH operated or JL operated.
And again note that SYD-SIN-KUL costs the same in points as SYD-SIN with SQ

Its a lot easier to get FF seats on SQ.

Please bear in mind that Chinese New year falls on 25 January 2020. and this may affect availability.

Not enough - used up all my Krisflyer points booking Europe trips for this Sep. Slowly building up VFF, but a way to go.

Good to know figures aren't outrageous.

Thanks for letting me know about the MH sale. I think I need to subscribe to them too.

I didn't think about CNY. That must be why availability is so poor for returning at the end of Jan.

I'm going to keep looking at other options, including purchasing outright. And at least I'll get the points (less cancellation fees) and taxes back if I find a more economical option.

 

[goldenhorn]

People also talk about the value of an FF point. Earn values are usually looked at for simplicity as around 1c/point (with desirable redemption values much higher: 2c+)..

Just using the 1c/point rate, those 240,000 QF points are also worth $2400. So if you add that to the flights, you’re already at $5400, and then still have further flights to purchase. Plus as mentioned that’s quite a number of connections/flights to get there (a number of shorter legs, so less relaxing). Plus as also mentioned, you lose the extra benefits of a paid ticket.

It all comes down to what you value, but personally that would be too high a cost for achieving that objective – sorry!

As for the LCC, if spending points I'd be more inclined to focus on the longer haul journeys, rather than using LCC for long haul and business class for shorter sectors. i.e. I wouldn't usually get an LCC for a long haul flight yet then have business class short haul flights; it doesn't seem to make personal sense.

OK, that's helpful to know. I didn't think about the $ value of the QF points I'm using to get to and from SIN.

Thanks for your opinion - really appreciate it!

 

[Quickstatus]

End of January is always difficult. At least in AU. School holiday come to an end around then so FF seats are always rare as at that time

In case you are going skiing in Japow, bear in mind that JL is very strict with oversized luggage especially ski bags. they will measure it with a tape measure and will "fine" you $USD200 if the bag is over-dimensioned. No exceptions - premium J ticket is no protection. MH/SQ no issue.

 

[goldenhorn]

End of January is always difficult. At least in AU. School holiday come to an end around then so FF seats are always rare as at that time

In case you are going skiing in Japow, bear in mind that JL is very strict with oversized luggage especially ski bags. they will measure it with a tape measure and will "fine" you $USD200 if the bag is over-dimensioned. No exceptions - premium J ticket is no protection. MH/SQ no issue.

Wow. No skiing here. Never been, although I’d love to. Worried my body is getting too old to start anytime soon. lol

I haven’t been to Japan since 1996 when I was in my late 20s, but that was back when I was a musician on tour, so it was all airports, hotels, and concert halls. I remember being blown away by Tokyo.

Really excited to see it again. We have 2 full weeks so I hope we can see a lot. It’s going to be bloody cold but that won’t dampen my spirits.