Generation X Y and boomer discussions ...

[bravoecho1]

I'm part of the second strongest economic force in the world (GenY) and this is exactly how most of us think.

I've heard a lot of thoughts from Gen Y over the past 12 months and I think they are about to get a bit of a surprise in 2009.

My bet is that Gen Y will fall down to 5th position, somewhere between the "Tweeners" purchasing everything to do with the Olsen twins and all the Nanna's out there buying socks and jocks :mrgreen:

By the way trippin_the_rift, this is all meant in jest.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

I've heard a lot of thoughts from Gen Y over the past 12 months and I think they are about to get a bit of a surprise in 2009.

My bet is that Gen Y will fall down to 5th position, somewhere between the "Tweeners" purchasing everything to do with the Olsen twins and all the Nanna's out there buying socks and jocks :mrgreen:

By the way trippin_the_rift, this is all meant in jest.

Speaking of Generation Y...2009 is going to be a VERY rude shock to most of them.

They have grown up in BOOM times and times where they could be extremely fussy about jobs, conditions of employment and tenure etc.

Money and credit were both viewed to be instantly on tap....and easily obtainable.

They have grown up when there were always more jobs than people.

The pendulaum has now swung....and will swing very hard post Xmas break. There will be more people than jobs.

My mail from many companies is that they have held off of layoffs and redundancies in the Xmas peiod...but that this hit hard after Xmas beak.

Those that are making people redundant are either not hiring at all, or will only be doing so well below normal replacement levels.

Fortunately Australia is going to bea lot less affected than many countries....but for a time the "easy times" are over.

Many in generation Y have had an attitude of spend now (on credit)and pay later....and for many who will be out of a job with no cash reserves, high debts the next few years will be grim time.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Speaking of Generation Y...2009 is going to be a VERY rude shock to most of them.

They have grown up in BOOM times and times where they could be extremely fussy about jobs, conditions of employment and tenure etc.

*warms his hands up*

*opens a can of worms*

Not only am I part of the generation, but my company runs the largest youth oriented social network in Australia with exposure to close to 700K GenYs. This obviously has led to a lot of research, discussion and opportunity to tap into the hardest market in history to market towards.

GenYs make more descions every year than the babyboombers have made in their entire lives. They can multi-task like no other and are the first generation demanding things their way. This has a huge impact on businesses because it means that "marketing" to GenY doesn't work because the branding isn't there like previous generations were exposed to through Tv,radio,magazines etc..

Many in generation Y have had an attitude of spend now (on credit)and pay later....and for many who will be out of a job with no cash reserves, high debts the next few years will be grim time.

True, but why should we care? We understand (do you understand?) how money works, how it's created and that the world NEEDS debt. Money=debt. Without us you're all screwed.

Also keep in mind that half of us are under 18 still and it's the BB who are paying for us to live. We're tapping into the majority of the wealth in the country which our parents hold and once they die out in the next 20years or so - guess who's going to hold the power?

Our cultural hegemony is unrivaled and we're a force to be rekoned with both economically and politically. Times sure are changin' and business is in for a rude shock when they realise we don't give a damn about their products.

 

[simongr]

What are you going to do when companies dont give a damn if you want a lifestyle choice and they can pick up a baby boomer for the same price who is working to maintain his super for a few more years.

I have worked with many GenY, I and my colleagues are mostly GenXand I have worked for and managed many Baby Boomers. Across that spectrum there are good and bad staff but with many of the GenY the common theme is one of a lack of commitment - which is easy when you jump between jobs. The challenege in the short term is going to be finding those jobs.

In the long run as this sorts itself out GenY can go back to job hopping - but 2009 is not going to be much fun...

 

[MDC]

This is beginning to sound like another forum I read... GHPC.

I think 2009 is going to be difficult for everybody; not just boomers, Gen-X or Gen-Y. The strong from every generation will survive while the weaker struggle.

As for Gen-Y tapping into the wealth of the boomer parents, I guess you've never heard of "Spending the kids inheritance". Sorry, but it's either spent already, lost in the stockmarket downturn or will be lost during the devaluation of house prices.

The last thing this world needs is more debt. Money does not = debt. Debt is the reason we're in so much trouble now.

 

[trippin_the_rift]

This is beginning to sound like another forum I read... GHPC.

The last thing this world needs is more debt. Money does not = debt. Debt is the reason we're in so much trouble now.

This is how money worked back in the mid 1700's !! (sorry)

Today, funds are referred to as "high powered money". All the banks in a given country are linked together as hubs and connected to the central reserve bank. This is for a few reasons, the major one to avoid a "run on the bank" which has happened a few times throughout history... Money is generally only ever transfered through these banks as if it were a closed circut system and we were all with the same bank.

But basically, for new money to be created and brought into the world - someone else needs to have gone into debt/taken a loan. The bank simply condures the money into existance on the promise of the borrower to repay the loan (the government lets them do so so long as they meet what is called a fractional reserve ratio of actual real money on hand).

The world relies on an evergrowing demand for credit to survive, however this is fundamentally flawed because we can't sustain economic growth AND get into more debt at the same time year after year. This is where we're coming into trouble now... there's too much debt and people can't repay the interest (ever asked yourself where the money for interest actually comes from?)

If there was no debt, there would be no money and the world would quickly colapse into mass poverty.

There you have it. TTR's crash course on how money is really created.

In response to simongr: What are GenY's going to do when companies don't give a damn?

Simple answer. GenY's will simply create their own companies, on their terms, and do business on a totally new level. They won't fight the system, they'll just hit those that don't play their game where it really hurts. Most new self made millionaires in Australia are under 30.

And remember..... GenY's are the offspring of the kids in the 60s and 70s who were often regarded as the most outspoken generation ever....

 

[simongr]

Good luck with creating new economies/industries - glad you have everything under control.

 

[serfty]

This is beginning to sound like another forum I read... GHPC.. ...

Exactly; CitiBank rewards is not the place to discuss this stuff.

Moved these Posts to Open discussion with it very own thread.

 

[drron]

Funny in 1929 it was the "New Economics" that meant things were so different that the old values were not applicable.By 1932 it was known they were.
In the early 1970's when the Gen Y parents were coming into the labour market it was the New Era and again the old values didnt apply-by 1975 again it was found they did.
In early 1987 it was a new paradigm-Black Monday fixed that.
Once again we see those people still confidently expressing the thought that old values do not apply.But 2+2 still=4.
Those that do not learn the lessons of history are bound to repeat them.

 

[Platy]

*GenYs make more descions every year than the babyboombers have made in their entire lives. They can multi-task like no other and are the first generation demanding things their way. This has a huge impact on businesses because it means that "marketing" to GenY doesn't work because the branding isn't there like previous generations were exposed to through TV,radio,magazines etc...

I dunno. My direct experience of folks younger than my good self (I am sitting between Y and X) has been within the postgraduate environment of a major Australian university. Admittedly, a small sample size, but I was personally surprised to find these friendly amenable good folk were:

- generally lacking in developed powers of critical thinking
- had low levels of general knowledge (world politics, current affairs, history, etc)
- low interest in/capacity to question orthodoxy

Of course this may have reflected declining standards in schools/undergraduate education. Without meaning or wanting to being I found myself as an unofficial mentor to many.

My other direct experience was working as a contractor in a major telco which adopted an emphasis of employing young folk preferentially. Sitting in HR in an open plan office I worked out that the good HR recruiting folk were mostly under 30 and had no concept of the value that someone a little older (>30!) could bring to the business. They kept employing folk in their own image, people they felt they could relate to and felt safe with. The general lack of awareness of professionalism was stark - IMHO that particular company would do better employing a number of folk better experienced in life and business to foster a little more judgment, wisdom, etc. At it stood, there were only two or three people over 40 in the whole organisation.

As far as demaning things their way is concerned, please consider that Gen Y are lucky. No obligatory national service, no world war to endure, no great depression to survive (although the current crisis may offer many surprised yet), no living on the edge as pioneers in a new land, whilst enjoying antibiotics MRIs and botox on tap and the promise of a sizeable inheritance from a previous generation that had to work hard and save their cash to rebuild after WW2. Adapting to a world in financial crisis may be the first big challenge for many seduced by easy credit and an expectation of entitlement.

I wouldn't confuse multi-tasking with the allure of the six second sound bite. Everything has been dumbed down over the last few decades, the high school curriculum, entry standards to university, whilst any media needs to be emasculated to the point of idiocy to allow the poorly wired grey matter to assimilate the most basic of information.

Marketing and branding are continuing to develop apace, suggesting that any claim that Gen Y are not completely obsessed with brand, self image, etc to require careful scrutiny.

 

[Platy]

The world relies on an evergrowing demand for credit to survive, however this is fundamentally flawed because we can't sustain economic growth AND get into more debt at the same time year after year. This is where we're coming into trouble now... there's too much debt and people can't repay the interest (ever asked yourself where the money for interest actually comes from?)

Might one be bold enough to request a Gen Y inspired solution to this little problem?

 

[oz_mark]

*warms his hands up*

*opens a can of worms*

Not only am I part of the generation, but my company runs the largest youth oriented social network in Australia with exposure to close to 700K GenYs. This obviously has led to a lot of research, discussion and opportunity to tap into the hardest market in history to market towards.

GenYs make more descions every year than the babyboombers have made in their entire lives. They can multi-task like no other and are the first generation demanding things their way. This has a huge impact on businesses because it means that "marketing" to GenY doesn't work because the branding isn't there like previous generations were exposed to through Tv,radio,magazines etc..

Ahh, the youth of every generation - always the same.

True, but why should we care? We understand (do you understand?) how money works, how it's created and that the world NEEDS debt. Money=debt. Without us you're all screwed.

Except, as many in GenY will discover eventually, the debt needs to be repaid. Piling debt upon debt works for a while, but as we have seen, can come crashing down.

Also keep in mind that half of us are under 18 still and it's the BB who are paying for us to live. We're tapping into the majority of the wealth in the country which our parents hold and once they die out in the next 20years or so - guess who's going to hold the power?

Our cultural hegemony is unrivaled and we're a force to be rekoned with both economically and politically. Times sure are changin' and business is in for a rude shock when they realise we don't give a damn about their products.

You have got to be kidding. Brand awareness is alive and well amongst GenY.

 

[SeatBackForward]

Every generation thinks they are better than preceeding ones...*ho hum* big deal, wait until they stop writing bad teenage poetry and see the real world around them..

 

[Soundguy]

.....Of course this may have reflected declining standards in schools/undergraduate education. Without meaning or wanting to being I found myself as an unofficial mentor to many.

The education system in particular has been HUGELY dumbed-down thanks to the blinkered left socialist approach to eduction. Most degrees from Australian Universities have very little meaning any more, I largely disregard them when employing.

A US study sat some of their current top students down for exams from previous years; todays bunch did progressively worse as the exams went back in time until the 1965 exams which not a single student passed. I wasn't around in 1965 but from my general observations I can believe it.

 

[Platy]

The education system in particular has been HUGELY dumbed-down thanks to the blinkered left socialist approach to eduction. Most degrees from Australian Universities have very little meaning any more, I largely disregard them when employing.

A US study sat some of their current top students down for exams from previous years; todays bunch did progressively worse as the exams went back in time until the 1965 exams which not a single student passed. I wasn't around in 1965 but from my general observations I can believe it.

Unfortunately the blame the socialists arguments just doesn't stack up. There has been a general trend to emasculate educational standards overseen by western governments on both sides of the political divide. Quite simply their stats improve as the bar is lowered creating an illusion of higher success rates in the system.

In the UK the dumbing down process was a product of the Thatcher Tory Government (Coalition equivalent). O'levels became GCSE under her watch in the early/mid 80s. Technical colleges were re-branded as universities. All to create an apparent increase in pass rates and uni educated rates to prop up her sorry record.

At that time I was working in educational publishing and saw for myself the retrograde simplification of the syllabus reading through text books being written to address the chagnes. These were severe steps back.

One good thing about the UK system, however, is private fee paying schools are just that. They don't get taxpayer subsidy typically running into multiples greater per student than government schools like those in Australia.

Incidentally, I did an anaylsis of the entrance level of TER scores when fee paying places were introduced to Australian universities by the Howard Government. They were an average of 15% lower than non privately funded places (against a claimed benchmark of up to 5% lower). Basically, if you have the cash you can buy a place at uni with substantially substandard entry results. I wrote to the VC at Sydney Uni at the time with all of my figures (in response to a revenue raising letter to alumni) and he shrugged them off as a necessity to genuflect to the Government of the day. However, fee paying places also contribute to lowering of standards. This has been Coalition policy in Australia. (And copied by a Labour Gov in the UK).

 

[trippin_the_rift]

Might one be bold enough to request a Gen Y inspired solution to this little problem?

How on earth could one of these slack, mindless GenY's possibly have a solution to a worldwide problem (created by the oldies)!?!?

Why create money as debt as all? Why not create money that circulates perpetually instead of relying on a perpetually growing demand for credit.

Isn't it odd that the 2 people who have openly spoke about this and how to fix the system were both presidents of USA....... and assasinated.

What we really need is a sustainable economy (we don't have one right now).

Banking could be run as a non-profit public service with the interest given back to citizens as a dividend or lending without charging interest at all.

The fundamental problem here is the system, doesn't matter how much tinkerring we do it won't ever solve the problems. The system itself must be replaced!

It all comes back to government and unfortunately - we need them to take control of the money. With all the governments pumping record dollars into economys through stimulous packages and what seems to be free money for major corporations - what the gov needs to do is somehow take this money back out of society so we don't get stuck with inflationary pressures.

 

[winetraveller]

GenYs make more descions every year than the babyboombers have made in their entire lives. They can multi-task like no other and are the first generation demanding things their way. This has a huge impact on businesses because it means that "marketing" to GenY doesn't work because the branding isn't there like previous generations were exposed to through Tv,radio,magazines etc..

Does their multi-tasking including washing the dishes in a restaurant, or cleaning toilets when there are no other jobs?

I'm 37, and I fully realise that if I needed to to get by I would do almost anything. An economy is not based on ephemera, ethereal concepts and moving ideas around. Ultimately an economy is based on making stuff, physical stuff, food, consumables, capital equipment and the like. Everything else feeds off this. If an economy is not building houses, and making (and selling cars) and feeding people (and drinking wine in my case) then there is no (or lesser) demand for iPods, and groovy internet applications, and networking.

Two contrasting examples of such economies. The US (where I live) is in deep s*&t. Why?, lots of reasons, but to put in simply they don't make anything any more. The basis of their economy has disappeared. The great economic pillars of the American Century have disolved, Ford, the great Financial institutions that made their money in bricks and morter and making stuff. The solution, according to all the experts, not more groovy internet stuff-making things that people want, all over the world.

Germany. The largest exporter in the world (by value), they make stuff. They may have had slow growth rates over the last twenty years, but if you consider the cost of reunification the exporting success of Germany is phenominal. About 90% of all the packaging produced in China for manufactures is produced on German made machinery.

Before the Y gens call me a Luddite, in addition to my real job I also own part of a pretty successful internet marketing company which has run some of the most successful social networking campaigns in Australia and the US. So I get it.

But when times get tough people don't want somebody who sits and brainstorms great ideas, they want somebody who gets their hands dirty and gets the job done.


When GenY is on the dole because they can't be coughd getting out of bed who are you going to market to?

Why do you think that when the economy slows they pump money in to building things?

 

[winetraveller]

True, but why should we care? We understand (do you understand?) how money works, how it's created and that the world NEEDS debt. Money=debt. Without us you're all screwed.

Also keep in mind that half of us are under 18 still and it's the BB who are paying for us to live. We're tapping into the majority of the wealth in the country which our parents hold and once they die out in the next 20years or so - guess who's going to hold the power?

Firstly, "Can you say negative equity?" Do you know what that is? Wikipedia it and tell me what it is?

Secondly not many GenYer's will see their parents die out in 20 years, try 40. This means they will blow your inheritance on a cushy rest home.

And finally the huge stash of super money you were banking on being handed to you when they pass over is getting smaller by the day. You cant drain them when they havn't got anything left.

 

[Hvr]

*warms his hands up*
They can multi-task like no other and are the first generation demanding things their way.

Multitasking is just another word for doing many things poorly and none well.

*warms his hands up*
GenYs make more descions every year than the babyboombers have made in their entire lives. T

Yeah right, like how much to sponge off their parents while they live at home forever. Not making a decision or facing up to reality, whilst technically a decision is, in my not so humble opinion avoiding reality.

I have been working for more than thirty years (since I was 16) and now have several university degrees and no debt.

I have made lots of decisions about real things, getting married, divorced, moving jobs etc. The whole gamut of life. Deciding which of the latest gadgets to download stuff or search the internet on is not a real decision.

That so many young people are now functionally illiterate is truly frightening. We risk losing the intelligence and drive that we need to stimulate the economy and move onto the next phase of the employment revolution.

As another poster has written there are way too few young people prepared to get their hands dirty cleaning toilets etc. There needs to be a rapid tightening of the welfare mentality and people put into jobs they are physically capable of and then they can move onto other jobs when available.

I know that when I employ someone if they have a job, any job, they are viewed by me as someone prepared to give life a go. The long term bludger who is hanging out for " the" job and content to avoid any work in the interim gets very short shrift from me.

 

[dajop]

Oh don't you love a good inter-generational stoush!

Personally this whole labelling generations thing is a load of BS.

Good eggs, bad eggs, lazy, get rich quick, hard workers, debt to buy the world, - every generation has them.

Where I work, we have Gen Y's who want the world now yet we also have many who seem to be working hard to get somewhere. Ditto for Gen X, Baby boomers, and those in between.

I suspect the whole Gen X/Gen Y thing also more applies to those at the towards the top of the socio-economic spectrum than those at the bottom, who really aren't busy doing their internet networking etc, but instead are either working hard to pay their way ..... or not (!) but are probably doing a different type of networking to get what they want/need......