General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

[mviy]

I think its already pretty easy access there are state hubs in central locations, pharmacies in every suburb and GPs (which is the hardest to use channel as you need an appointment). Pop-ups unnecessary at this stage where majority of people are already vaccinated.

Pop-ups are necessary if you want to get vaccination levels as high as possible without mandates. Vaccination rates are far lower than capacity because many people clearly don't see any urgency to justify going out of their way to get vaccinated. However, make it possible to have a vaccination at the train station on the way to/from work, or have one at work with minimal time away from your desk, or a kid go and get a vaccination at school when they already need to be there and it will make it that much easier.

 

[Lynda2475]

I'm sorry I just dont see how pop-ups create any urgency. , The cohorts that are lagging are the 5-15 year olds they arent catching the train to or from work. You need to get their parents to consent and take them - a tax or withholding rebates for the unvaccinated might work. If you can go to a pop-up you can got to a pharmac_.

 

[drron]

I'm sorry I just dont see how pop-ups create any urgency. , The cohorts that are lagging are the 5-15 year olds they arent catching the train to or from work. You need to get their parents to consent and take them - a tax or withholding rebates for the unvaccinated might work. If you can go to a pop-up you can got to a pharmac_.

Yet this was the opposition response to Tasmania's numbers in 5-11 year olds.

Labor's education spokesman Josh Willie said the government needed to do more to ensure that more children in the five to 11 year age group received their first dose of the COVID-19 vaccination.
"They could have been providing vaccinations in pharmacies, they could have been rolling out more pop up clinics in regional areas, and pulling out all stops to give all Tasmanian children an opportunity to at least have one vaccination before school started," he said.
"We're the only state in the country not rolling out vaccines in pharmacies for that cohort and it's quite clear in regional areas that there needs to be more effort.

COVID case numbers in Tasmanian government primary schools revealed

New figures from the Education Department follow the announcement of 41 COVID outbreaks in Tasmanian schools.

www.examiner.com.au

 

[Lynda2475]

Doesnt stack up since the states that do use pharmacies arent doing any better. Personally i think many parents just cant be bothered because kids rarely get more than the sniffles from omicron and there is no acess or financial downside if they dont get jabbed.

The access argument has no merrit given we are swimming in unused doses.

 

[drron]

So a demonstration of why I don't take at face value everything the "experts" write.
Here is an article put out by the NIH in the US. Basically singing the praises of mRNA vaccines and particularly a booster.

How COVID-19 Immunity Holds Up Over Time

More than 215 million people in the United States are now fully vaccinated against the SARS-CoV-2 virus responsible for COVID-19 [1]. More than 40 percent—more than 94 million people—also have roll…

directorsblog.nih.gov

However there are several facts omitted.
1. They say the booster should be either Pfizer or Moderna. despite the fact the CDC has authorised J&J as a booster.
2.The reports from the US say that having a J&J initial shot and an mRNA booster or 2 mRNA shots and a J&J booster give a better coverage than three mRNA shots.
3. They use antibody levels as the prediction of immunity. It is now becoming likely that cellular immunity is more important especially in long term coverage.
4. Only 1 line that HCW who have had a breakthrough infection have a greater immunity if vaccinated. With Omicron the unvaccinated who have had covid have as much protection as those with 2 doses of vaccine. There is no evidence that more than 1 shot of a vaccine gives them extra protection.
They do not mention that there is evidence that at least 50% of US citizens have had a covid infection.

.

The bottom part of the graph is the numbers that have antibodies to the N protein which is not induced by vaccines.

 

[drron]

We now have to ask why are we vaccinating 5 - 11 year olds. The vaccine is much less effective in this age group quite probably due to the lower dose used. However increasing the dose especially in boys risks an increase in side effects. The evidence is in that age group serious disease is rare. here is the study.

Effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine among children 5-11 and 12-17 years in New York after the Emergence of the Omicron Variant

Importance There is limited evidence on the effectiveness of the BNT162b2 vaccine for children, particularly those 5-11 years and after the Omicron variant’s emergence. Objective To estimate BNT162b2 vaccine effectiveness against COVID cases and hospitalizations among children 5-11 years and...

www.medrxiv.org

And here are the New York times and guardians take on it.

Pfizer Shot Is Far Less Effective in 5- to 11-Year-Olds Than in Older Kids, New Data Show (Published 2022)

While protection against hospitalization is still strong, the vaccine offered almost no protection against infection, even just a month after full vaccination.

www.nytimes.com

Pfizer vaccine significantly less effective in children ages five to 11, study shows

Strikingly higher rates of decline in effectiveness for younger children suggest the lower dose they receive may be the reason

www.theguardian.com

 

[mviy]

It’s possible that 5-11 year-olds could have an improved response after a third dose (if that gets approved) or even a fourth.

 

[drron]

It’s possible that 5-11 year-olds could have an improved response after a third dose (if that gets approved) or even a fourth.

Why? they are at very little risk of severe disease. With the mRNA vaccines side effects are worse after the first dose.
Read the articles. the effectiveness of the vaccine for 11 year olds is 11%.

 

[mviy]

Well we will see. The immunocompromised are recommended to have an extra dose than the general population. With the lower dosage young kids may need extra doses to get the same level of protection as those that are older.

 

[Pushka]

Interesting article I read on why young people (before puberty) don't get severe illness. It related to cytokine production which changes when puberty hits. And their enhanced immune system. I think the risk especially to boys outweighs the benefits, because really we are vaccinating them to save older at risk groups. I don't think ethically that's what we should be doing to under 12's. Once they hit puberty then it's more to protect them but even so, I wouldn't be rushing the children out. And I'm very pro Vax.

 

[mviy]

The thing is if we are going to vaccinate young kids it seems pretty clear that either a higher dosage is needed (if safe) or more doses to get a decent immune response to the vaccine.

 

[Pushka]

The thing is if we are going to vaccinate young kids it seems pretty clear that either a higher dosage is needed (if safe) or more doses to get a decent immune response to the vaccine.

But for what or whose purpose? Increasing the dosage runs the risk of heart issues in boys in particular.

 

[N860CR]

I think that by focusing so much on “vaccination percentages” of late we’ve somewhat lost track of what we’re trying to achieve. It would make a great headline to vaccinate 100% of the population, but it serves no purpose. We know this virus doesn’t impact children. We also know that vaccination doesn’t prevent infection. So why would we vaccinate a child who is at virtually no risk of illness from the virus?

There are plenty of vaccinations that are only offered from a certain age. We shouldn’t be aspiring to have babies pulled out of their mother and injected ASAP just to suit an agenda.

 

[Lynda2475]

Problem with using 12 is that a good deal of girls hit puberty well before they turn 12. And lots of parents of 11yos have been waiting for their kids to turn 12 to get higher dosage

Maybe vaccine recommendations should be gender based. We know that AZ present a greater risk to pre-menopausal women than it does to men, and MRNA greater risk to boys and younger men.

 

[drron]

Well we will see. The immunocompromised are recommended to have an extra dose than the general population. With the lower dosage young kids may need extra doses to get the same level of protection as those that are older.

The problem with children is that one of the most severe side effects of covid is MIS-C and that usually occurs after mild disease which the children's dose vaccines are basically not preventing. So what are we really gaining by vaccinating young children?

multi system disease in children after mild covid at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

There are also some possibly disturbing things coming to light with the Pfizer vaccine. In cell cultures the vaccine can get into the nucleus of liver cells and be incorporated in the cells DNA which we have been assured can't happen. This is a study from Sweden.

Conclusions​

Our study is the first in vitro study on the effect of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine BNT162b2 on human liver cell line. We present evidence on fast entry of BNT162b2 into the cells and subsequent intracellular reverse transcription of BNT162b2 mRNA into DNA.

Intracellular Reverse Transcription of Pfizer BioNTech COVID-19 mRNA Vaccine BNT162b2 In Vitro in Human Liver Cell Line

Preclinical studies of COVID-19 mRNA vaccine BNT162b2, developed by Pfizer and BioNTech, showed reversible hepatic effects in animals that received the BNT162b2 injection. Furthermore, a recent study showed that SARS-CoV-2 RNA can be reverse-transcribed and integrated into the genome of human...

www.mdpi.com

Moderna not without their problems with allegations they stole the info to produce their vaccine.

Biotech firms allege Moderna hijacked technology to develop COVID-19 vaccine

Two biotech companies filed a lawsuit against Moderna on Monday, alleging that the vaccine manufacturer had infringed on patented technology when it developed its COVID-19 vaccine.Arbutus Biopharma and Genevant Sciences allege in their civil lawsuit that Moderna was able to quickly develop a...

news.yahoo.com

Mind you there was also fraud alleged in the conduct of some of the Pfizer vaccine trials.

Swedish physicians launch petition to suspend Pfizer jabs after trial fraud allegations surface

A group of 16 Swedish doctors and researchers have signed a petition to demand that Pfizer’s vaccines be stopped in Sweden due to suspected fraud. Published: November 8, 2021, 1:06 pm E…

peckford42.wordpress.com

 

[wandering_fred]

General counter culture opinions after two years of watching the "in fighting"
Some medical people think that the AZ vaccine actually works fairly well for the over 60s.
A lot of people wonder about mRNA vaccine side effects for the under 40s.
Why did it take so long for the protein subunit vaccines to get approved compared with the rapid mRNA approvals?
What were the limitations, if any, placed on governments relating to any alternatives when they did sign up for mRNA vaccine allotments?
When will the government publicly support supplements (vitC/D,Zn) and exercise to improve native immune system responses?

Is this asking to too much in the way of wandering?
Fred

 

[Pushka]

General counter culture opinions after two years of watching the "in fighting"
Some medical people think that the AZ vaccine actually works fairly well for the over 60s.
A lot of people wonder about mRNA vaccine side effects for the under 40s.
Why did it take so long for the protein subunit vaccines to get approved compared with the rapid mRNA approvals?
What were the limitations, if any, placed on governments relating to any alternatives when they did sign up for mRNA vaccine allotments?
When will the government publicly support supplements (vitC/D,Zn) and exercise to improve native immune system responses?

Is this asking to too much in the way of wandering?
Fred

Wasn’t there an issue with the production of the protein based vaccinations?

 

[mviy]

Studies are being conducted I think into what difference a third dose makes for vaccinating young kids. The results of studies like that will presumably influence decision making.

 

[Lynda2475]

Wasn’t there an issue with the production of the protein based vaccinations?

Yep and they also applied for approval considerably later than AZ and the MRNAs. There is no conspiracy,

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Someone uncork the champagne, we've got some big news coming out of ATAGI:

The Australian Technical Advisory Group on Immunisation (ATAGI) has recommended the use of the Novavax vaccine as a booster in Australians aged 18 and over where an mRNA vaccine is not suitable.

However, it remains to be seen if those of us preparing to receive our 4th dose (booster) will be able to access the jab soon:

The Therapeutic Goods Administration is currently considering an application for whole of population use of the Novavax COVID-19 vaccine as a booster following a two-dose course of either the Pfizer or Moderna mRNA vaccine or the AstraZeneca vaccine.

Hopefully I can get it soon, because the thought of only have the same old vaccine as a booster that offers at best marginally better protection against infection isn't appealing.

Looking forward to the day I can say I received all the COVID vaccines.

-RooFlyer88