General COVID-19 Vaccine Discussion

JohnM

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Any comment from the medicos about the IM injection aspiration matter, which seems to have got lost in a diversion?
 

Pom-DownUnder

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There are actually a few medications that are used to treat Covid if you become unwell enough to need admission to hospital or if you are early in the disease and at risk of getting severe disease.
Corticosteroids (Dexamethasone usually)
Barictinib
Remdesevir
Tocilizumab
Prevention of severe disease we currently have
Sotrovimab

There have been many trials around the world and many still being undertaken

Influenza has been around for years making people feel awful and that’s pretty much what Covid-19 is for a lot of people.
The recommendation for home treatment is the same, rest, fluids, paracetamol or inbuprofen.
just seems a very large distance between treatments avail in hospital and treatments available in the home of which could result in someone not ending up needing hospital, no?
 

Princess Fiona

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just seems a very large distance between treatments avail in hospital and treatments available in the home of which could result in someone not ending up needing hospital, no?
Vaccination is the difference between ending up in hospital or staying at home.
 

wandering_fred

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OTOH it is very well documented that vitamin D deficiencies will aid/abet all sorts of "bad things" including covid-19.
Why is there no documentation being gathered in Australia (and then published) on the vitamin D levels of all people who are admitted to hospital for covid-19?
Politically speaking, a public health announcement that overly low vitamin D levels is prevalent in those persons admitted (and please get more vitamin D "somehow"), would be a "low cost" "we are doing something positive" message.
Not all would respond to the message, but "every little bit helps?"

The local pharmacist is as far as you would be required to be wandering
Fred

PS measuring zinc levels and suggesting supplements might also help
And the drugs that were previously listed would be prohibitively expensive if they had to be paid for by the patient.
 

Princess Fiona

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OTOH it is very well documented that vitamin D deficiencies will aid/abet all sorts of "bad things" including covid-19.
Why is there no documentation being gathered in Australia (and then published) on the vitamin D levels of all people who are admitted to hospital for covid-19?
Politically speaking, a public health announcement that overly low vitamin D levels is prevalent in those persons admitted (and please get more vitamin D "somehow"), would be a "low cost" "we are doing something positive" message.
Not all would respond to the message, but "every little bit helps?"

The local pharmacist is as far as you would be required to be wandering
Fred

PS measuring zinc levels and suggesting supplements might also help
And the drugs that were previously listed would be prohibitively expensive if they had to be paid for by the patient.
Vitamin D has been looked at for treating / preventing Covid
It doesn’t work BMJ

Not all of the drugs listed above are expensive.
steroi_s are cheap as chips.

All of the others including the steroi_s prevent prolonged ICU admission/ ventilation and death.
ICU is extremely expensive if the patient had to pay for that too.
 

drron

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The problem with studies of VitaminD is that there is a whole string of diseases that are associated with low vitaminD levels.However it is possible that the low vitamin levels has not caused the conditions but that what caused the low vitamin D level is the real cause -ie low Vitamin D levels are often due to frailty and an inability to mobilise and get outside.Vitamin D can be produced by UV radiation in sunlight.

So there are studies that show an association of low Vitamin D levels with various cancers.However very large trials including the Women's Health initiative have shown that giving Vitamin D supplements does not reduce the rate of developing cancers.
Calcium and vitamin D were hypothesized to reduce the risk of hip fracture and colorectal cancer. 18,176 women received 500 mg of elemental calcium as calcium carbonate with 200 IU of vitamin D3 twice daily (1000 mg of elemental calcium and 400 IU of vitamin D3) and 18,106 received a matching placebo for an average of 7.0 years [3,4]. No effect on the incidence of colorectal cancer or hip fracture was found and there was an increased risk of kidney stones.


There are a couple of exceptions.One is breast cancer where the rate of in situ breast cancer with Vitamin D supplements was 17% lower but those receiving higher doses in the study had a 28% greater incidence of invasive breast cancer.Not a great trade off.

Also Pancreatic cancer is less likely to occur in people who are vitamin D deficient and supplements increase it's incidence.
 

Quickstatus

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ny comment from the medicos about the IM injection aspiration matter, which seems to have got lost in a diversion?
Not thought to be an issue.
But here you go:
…..
OTOH it is very well documented that vitamin D deficiencies will aid/abet all sorts of "bad things" including covid-19.
Remember that Covid infection is more severe in people with co-morbidities.

Here is one: what can reduce Covid, cardiovascular, stroke and diabetic risk?. (Hint: it’s not a pill)
 
Last edited:

jakeseven7

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That may be so, but I'd rather it was after I had a booster shot of a half decent vaccine. Dragging the chain again?

Yes, but thankfully you are incorrect regarding your assessment of vaccines and regardless it won’t even matter for the rest of us :)
 

drron

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That may be so, but I'd rather it was after I had a booster shot of a half decent vaccine. Dragging the chain again?
No one here is dragging the Chain.Neither the CDC in the USA or the UK body are suggesting that the general public should have a booster shot at this stage though people may have one if they want.
Now they began vaccinating 2 months before Australia so any official decision should be at least 2 months away.
 

Quickstatus

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after I had a booster shot of a half decent vaccine

Whats are the characteristics of a "half decent" vaccine- Scandinavia has stopped administering SpikeVax (Moderna)
The assumption is that 2Jabs is inadequate? And 3jab is better?

Maybe 4Jab even better? 5jab?. I know a 5Jab person.
Maybe the old adage - if some thing is good , more must be better?

What is the minimum level of immunity required to prevent CovidInfection?
100% prevention?. 90% prevention? what is an acceptable prevention level?
Is immunity from Wild covid infection enough? Why not?
Is 2jab enough?, 3, 4, 5?
Some statements say "level of protection" is reduced with CovidInfection compared with CovidVax.
The don't define "level of protection". It is not a recognised definition of within the study of mmunology

Is circulating antibody the appropriate test for resistance to infection?
If so what level of circulating antibody is enough? - say for 90% reduction in risk of CovidInfection

What role does T cell immunity (which is more difficult to measure) play? what is the minimum here?
Remember T cells are the immunity memory bank. Activate the T cells and circulating antibodies rise rapidly.


Lots of studies look at "immune response" but they are unable to yet ascertain what the minimum immune response should be.

Its sort of like Cholesterol. Research says Pill X reduces cholesterol. But is that the goal?. Or is it reduction in risk of heart attacks?.
There is a point in cholesterol reduction where more does not reduce the risk of heart attacks.
And there are also other measures besides cholesterol that should be undertaken.

Science has been taken over by pseudoscience, politics and fear.
And everyone is now an expert in immunology, epidemiology and public health - me included.
 

drron

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Europe will consider Pfizer for 5-11 kids on October 26.
 

VPS

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Whats are the characteristics of a "half decent" vaccine- Scandinavia has stopped administering SpikeVax (Moderna)
The assumption is that 2Jabs is inadequate? And 3jab is better?

Maybe 4Jab even better? 5jab?. I know a 5Jab person.
Maybe the old adage - if some thing is good , more must be better?

What is the minimum level of immunity required to prevent CovidInfection?
100% prevention?. 90% prevention? what is an acceptable prevention level?
Is immunity from Wild covid infection enough? Why not?
Is 2jab enough?, 3, 4, 5?
Some statements say "level of protection" is reduced with CovidInfection compared with CovidVax.
The don't define "level of protection". It is not a recognised definition of within the study of mmunology

Is circulating antibody the appropriate test for resistance to infection?
If so what level of circulating antibody is enough? - say for 90% reduction in risk of CovidInfection

What role does T cell immunity (which is more difficult to measure) play? what is the minimum here?
Remember T cells are the immunity memory bank. Activate the T cells and circulating antibodies rise rapidly.


Lots of studies look at "immune response" but they are unable to yet ascertain what the minimum immune response should be.

Its sort of like Cholesterol. Research says Pill X reduces cholesterol. But is that the goal?. Or is it reduction in risk of heart attacks?.
There is a point in cholesterol reduction where more does not reduce the risk of heart attacks.
And there are also other measures besides cholesterol that should be undertaken.

Science has been taken over by pseudoscience, politics and fear.
And everyone is now an expert in immunology, epidemiology and public health - me included.
Is this appropriate? ;) 🤦‍♀️ :p
1634801197680.png
 

drron

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The AMA trying to keep in the news.

But it is up to ATAGI.

Tassie upping their vaccine targetting.From the Deputy Premiers presser.

"Pleasingly we are starting to see strong vaccination coverage in all age groups and in all parts of the state.

However, vaccination rates are still slightly lower in the North-West than the state average so I would especially encourage everyone across the Coast not to wait any longer to book in their vaccination.

State-run Pfizer clinics will be running across the North-West over the next two weeks, and the vaccination bus will be touring throughout the region.

I’d particularly like to highlight a pop-up clinic opening tomorrow for two days at the Smithton RSL, which will be able to vaccination hundreds of locals.

Elsewhere in the North-West, community clinics are running at:

  • Wynyard Railway Hall – 28 – 29 October
  • Latrobe Speedway and Function Centre – 28 October
  • Burnie Arts and Function Centre – 25 – 27 October, 1 – 3 November
  • Ulverstone Rowing Club – 26 – 27 October
  • Devonport Surf Life Saving Club – 22, 24, 27 – 29 October, 3-5 November
Anyone aged 12 or over can walk-in and get vaccinated without an appointment across the state, but bookings are encouraged to avoid waiting.

To book an appointment, call the Public Health Hotline on 1800 671 738, or book online at www.coronavirus.tas.gov.au/bookings.

The COVID-19 vaccination bus – run in partnership with the Royal Flying Doctor Service – is also touring the area over the next few weeks.

The bus will be in Tullah and Waratah over the next two days, before heading to Mole Creek, Edith Creek, Irishtown, Sassafras, Redpa and Railton next week.

Tomorrow, the bus will be parked at Farrell Street Council Carpark in Tullah from 10am to 5pm, and on Friday it will be at the Waratah Road House at 11 Smith Street from 10.30am to 3.30pm.

Appointments are not required for the bus – just turn up and get vaccinated."
 

jakeseven7

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The AMA trying to keep in the news.

But it is up to ATAGI.

Tassie upping their vaccine targetting.From the Deputy Premiers presser.

"Pleasingly we are starting to see strong vaccination coverage in all age groups and in all parts of the state.

However, vaccination rates are still slightly lower in the North-West than the state average so I would especially encourage everyone across the Coast not to wait any longer to book in their vaccination.

State-run Pfizer clinics will be running across the North-West over the next two weeks, and the vaccination bus will be touring throughout the region.

I’d particularly like to highlight a pop-up clinic opening tomorrow for two days at the Smithton RSL, which will be able to vaccination hundreds of locals.

Elsewhere in the North-West, community clinics are running at:

  • Wynyard Railway Hall – 28 – 29 October
  • Latrobe Speedway and Function Centre – 28 October
  • Burnie Arts and Function Centre – 25 – 27 October, 1 – 3 November
  • Ulverstone Rowing Club – 26 – 27 October
  • Devonport Surf Life Saving Club – 22, 24, 27 – 29 October, 3-5 November
Anyone aged 12 or over can walk-in and get vaccinated without an appointment across the state, but bookings are encouraged to avoid waiting.

To book an appointment, call the Public Health Hotline on 1800 671 738, or book online at www.coronavirus.tas.gov.au/bookings.

The COVID-19 vaccination bus – run in partnership with the Royal Flying Doctor Service – is also touring the area over the next few weeks.

The bus will be in Tullah and Waratah over the next two days, before heading to Mole Creek, Edith Creek, Irishtown, Sassafras, Redpa and Railton next week.

Tomorrow, the bus will be parked at Farrell Street Council Carpark in Tullah from 10am to 5pm, and on Friday it will be at the Waratah Road House at 11 Smith Street from 10.30am to 3.30pm.

Appointments are not required for the bus – just turn up and get vaccinated."

North West as we discussed ;) what a surprise. Praise be 😂
 

Pushka

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Europe will consider Pfizer for 5-11 kids on October 26.
SA Health are commencing this before Christmas. They have also said any boosters will be Pfizer or Moderna.
 

drron

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The FDA is also going to consider authorising those 5-11 on October 26th.The Pfizer boss is confident that 2-5 will be approved this year.
The child vaccine with Pfizer is one third the dose of adult dose but is just as effective according to Pfizers trial.

New decisions on booster doses.Not a ringing endorsement of the J&J vaccine with the recommendation that a booster mRNA dose be given to all 18+ after 2 months.Suggests the one dose regime didn't really work.
The official advice is still limited to the over 65s and in younger people those with risk factors including those who work or live in high risk settings.

With the mRNA vaccines Moderna looks a little better than Pfizer in stimulating antibody production..

And in the US more people are now getting a booster than having first shots.
 

Pushka

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