Frequent Flyer programs and Personal Financial Plans

[burmans]

"and use ASA as opposed to Classic awards whenever possible."

Was the statement used by Admin in his presentation, not mine...

Ah yes, I think I was agreeing with you!

 

[jonglo111]

Hi there! I'm totally confused as to why ASA is better than Classic award. Is there a variation in the number of points required for each award for the same trip? eg number of points for a J award trip to London in either Classic or ASA? Sorry to be so dumb!

 

[Princess Fiona]

Hi there! I'm totally confused as to why ASA is better than Classic award. Is there a variation in the number of points required for each award for the same trip? eg number of points for a J award trip to London in either Classic or ASA? Sorry to be so dumb!

An ASA as defined in the presentation above is essentially talking about an Any Seat Award spending the same amount of FF points as a Classic Award but with a (usually but not always) more expensive cash co-payment. The big difference is that unlike Classic Awards these will earn Status Credits and FF points.
JessicaTam has highlighted the relevant threads above for booking them.
Prior to June 26th they could be booked online, just like a regular Classic Award or exorbitant ASA. With the re-vamp of the website the online booking facility was removed and as an interim measure they can be booked via the telephone agents.

 

[jonglo111]

Thanks Princess Fiona.

 

[Princess Fiona]

Thanks Princess Fiona.

You're very welcome. The threads highlighted in the posts above mine are very worthwhile reading

 

[burmans]

AFF would have had its reasons to accept the presentation opportunity.I do not see a problem with it.

AFF are probably trying to drive people to the site because they get revenue based on a click basis and hence increasing people on their site increases revenue. I don't have a problem with that either per se but equally its not necessarily in our interest.

While I dont have much truck with those who want to keep things secret, AFF works for most of us because its a relatively closed loop. We seem to be accepting of new people who are willing to contribute in return for us helping them out, less so of those who come to suck information out but not contribute much (we know who you are even if you seem to be oblivious!). To a degree the people who go to Maquarie presentations fall into this latter category (and I'm been one too so this is a self-criticism), we know Maquarie are making money off us and hence don't feel that embarrased about going to these things to see what we can gain on a purely self interested basis.

My point would be that the interests of the people that might be attracted might not align with ours, so while I dont particularly have a problem with AFF promoting itself, I think we'd be naive to think there may not be downsides to us in a user wider base if that wider base includes people looking for info but not contributing much.

 

[harvyk]

While I dont have much truck with those who want to keep things secret, AFF works for most of us because its a relatively closed loop. We seem to be accepting of new people who are willing to contribute in return for us hlping them out, less so of those who come to suck information out but not contribute much (we know who you are even if you seem to be oblivious!). To a degree the people who go to Maquarie presentations fall into this latter category (and I'm been one too so this is a self-criticism), we know Maquarie are making money off us and hence don't feel that embarrased about going to these things to see what we can gain on a purely self interested basis.

I sort of agree with this, whilst there is certain a degree of secrecy around playing the system, if it was really an issue then no doubt the airlines would be busy closing off loopholes as quickly as they could. Airlines know that things like YUPP's and mASA's are not 100% in the best interest of the airline, in both cases giving an cheaper option to status than pure BIS flying. That said, to actually book a mASA or a YUPP which is heavily to your advantage can sometimes take a lot of research, and removed a lot of flexibility in travel dates.

For my first use of a JASA a couple of months ago, it took me many hours of searching to get the perfect itin. Yes it took the points requirements from 700,000 (which I didn't have) down to 40,000 (after points earn for the trip) and I earned 200SCs in the process, but I was restricted on the dates which I could travel.

I am willing to go through that research process because there is no other way I'd be able to experience J if it was not for points (praying for OpUp's is not really a reliable strategy), so I may as well put the effort in to get the most out of my points.

At the same time, I know people with points balances of 10 times what I have who feel the points are worthless because they are not willing to spend any time researching. I have told them some of the tricks of the trade, but it seems like too much effort, so they have these impressive points balances, which would allow them as a family to do a DONE4 if they spent a bit of time on it, and yet they won't because they feel it's all too hard.

Just my 2c on what sharing the information is probably not as dangerous as we might think...

 

[burmans]

Yes, I'm actually relatively relaxed about this, not least because there really is very little we can do about it. I probably have what some would regard as a cynical attitude to the airlines position on this too. They want us to have the view that "loyalty programs" are in our interest, YUPP's and mASA's are regarded by many here as a benefit and while the "perception" of benefit outways the cost to them they will keep it. As you point out the average Jo Blow doesn't really maximise the value of the program hence Qantas can advertise all these "benefits" which perversely most don't take advantage of but yet still accept Qantas's categorisation of this as being a benefit to them. (dont ask me to explain human nature!)

On AFF I think we do all recognise that "loyalty" programs are created by airlines to deal with the "perception" of benefit to its frequent flyers rather than the reality, which is that FF programs are big earners to the airlines so are clearly not really setup with us in mind.

If people in general were to suddenly maximise advantage as we do then yes, we'd be in trouble because the airlines would shut these down double quick but I accept and agree that lethargy of the general public does work to our advantage.

 

[doctau]

At the same time, I know people with points balances of 10 times what I have who feel the points are worthless because they are not willing to spend any time researching. I have told them some of the tricks of the trade, but it seems like too much effort, so they have these impressive points balances, which would allow them as a family to do a DONE4 if they spent a bit of time on it, and yet they won't because they feel it's all too hard.

I assume you offered to do the research for them in exchange for a cut of the points?

 

[coles525]

harvyk: your inbox is full, cant msg ya...

 

[harvyk]

I assume you offered to do the research for them in exchange for a cut of the points?

That's a good idea...

 

[chemtrails]

FF programs are probably a bit like Gift Cards, there are a few people out there who use the program to it's maximum and thus there isn't a lot of benefit for the business but there are those out there who don't use it fully and that's where you make your cream.

 

[fersea]

FF programs are probably a bit like Gift Cards, there are a few people out there who use the program to it's maximum and thus there isn't a lot of benefit for the business but there are those out there who don't use it fully and that's where you make your cream.

I think that is exactly right. How many people earn enough points to fly business class anywhere or around the world (two examples where you get the most value). And one big difference is many posters on here are only looking for flights for 1. Having enough points for two or a family is a different matter.

Would be interesting to know exactly how many points are ever redeemed and how many for things other than vouchers or domestic economy flights which don't normally get a lot of bang for your buck.

 

[Awesom Andy]

Imagine the difficulty of trying to work out how much the points would devalue over the longer term... may be take a 10% discount every year? Unless the number of points gained are substantial, it might be easier to just leave it out of the equation, and treat it as icing on the cake when/if something happens from it.