Frequent Flyer points a big con

[serfty]

There's a difference in the way Velocity points are earned - with a set ratio of points earned per inclusive $ spent (depending on Status).

So as total inclusive fares go up, point earning goes up. Unlike Qantas where point earning via flying is completely distance based.

 

[NM]

Unlike Qantas where point earning is completely distance based.

or credit card spend based

 

[serfty]

or credit card spend based

True, I've qualified my comment.

 

[oz_mark]

So as total inclusive fares go up, point earning goes up. Unlike Qantas where point earning via flying is completely distance based.

So the value of a point should increase over time.

 

[lovetravellingoz]

Ok...cutting to the chase....for Virgin and Qantas.....which earns more flight rewards per flights taken????

Secondly as you can earn points via credit cards for BOTH Virgin and Qantas.....which one is more generous here as well....in terms of flights per $ spent?

Virgin would currently have more flexibility in terms of any flight....but at what cost?

Qantas has more flexibility in havinga much greater range of routes including with its One wold and other partners (ie I have just redeemed 5 flights to noumea with Air caledonia).

 

[dajop]

With this thread in mind, I thought I'd try a little experiment, on availability of economy seats to London. I picked 3 midweek dates later this year to see if I could get seats from MEL to London, on different airlines (except VS where the only option is SYD to London). The airlines/programmes chosen were QF/QFF, SQ/KrisFlyer, NZ/Airpoints. I have also asked Velocity call centre for availability for travel on MH using velocity points on 15 May (waiting to hear back). MH & NZ were assessed using return availability two weeks as oneway redemptions very expensive on NZ, and not available on MH.

For NZ, the Airpoints programme works on any seat available at a commercial fare - so of course availability is fine, but for this exercise as I have an Altitude credit card, I wanted to see if the rates were comparable to QF FF points, and 160 Altitude pt = 1 Airpoints Dollar = 80 QF FF points.

Dates chosen were 15 May, 15 Jul & 15 Sep.

Results:

15 May - QF:nil, SQ:3 options, NZ:available for extra 11% of points, but on 16 May available*, VS - 1 option.

15 July - QF: nil, VS:nil; SQ:1 option, NZ:available for extra 45% of points

15 Sep: - QF:nil, VS:nil, SQ:1 option, NZ:available*

I could not find any availability on QF in Y from at all in from May through Sep, but good availability in October on Mon/Tue/Wed.

I am a PPS member with SQ, I don't know if that influences availability on them. However also a WP on QF and that used to have better availability (but I note that since they've been selling Y+, all awards book to X class - does that mean the T class inventories have gone?)

Make of this what you will!

* noting that cost was equivalent to 130,000 QF FF points return, comparable to the 128,000 for QF award.

 

[Platy]

Whereas QF probably keeps within the strict terms and conditions set out in the fine print I think there is no doubt that expectations are created, which are subsequently and quite wantonly snubbed:

Con 1 - decrease in earn rates (eg. km to miles)
Con 2 - increase in redemption rates
Con 3 - ever increasing fees for processing/changing bookings
Con 4 - charging fuel fines on redemption flights
Con 5 - increasing minimum time before flight when award booking can be made
Con 6 - limited access to seats
Con 7 - limited access to upgrades (unless premium status)
Con 8 - marketing Deathstar as QF flight numbers but with reduced service levels
Con 9 - taking revenue from partners knowing that the payback most likley will never have to be delivered (most points not used)
Con 10 - abusing the database listing of members for marketing of secondary partner goods

 

[kyle]

I still remember the line Qantas used to justify the change from km to miles - to be consistent with the other airline partners. So why didn't the redemption levels fall?

 

[serfty]

Note that QFF award availability for BA flights has 'fallen off' the online booking engine in the last few days.

It appears sometimes the agents can't see it either if you telephone. This may affect the analysis.

More here (on FlyerTalk):

• Do NOT trust the Qantas awards website!! - FlyerTalk Forums
• QF award availability checker on KVS - Page 2 - FlyerTalk Forums

... (but I note that since they've been selling Y+, all awards book to X class - does that mean the T class inventories have gone?) ...

Yes! See here:

• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/com...ass-code-changes-11228.html?highlight=premium

 

[Platy]

Whereas QF probably keeps within the strict terms and conditions set out in the fine print I think there is no doubt that expectations are created, which are subsequently and quite wantonly snubbed:

Con 1 - decrease in earn rates (eg. km to miles)
Con 2 - increase in redemption rates
Con 3 - ever increasing fees for processing/changing bookings
Con 4 - charging fuel fines on redemption flights
Con 5 - increasing minimum time before flight when award booking can be made
Con 6 - limited access to seats
Con 7 - limited access to upgrades (unless premium status)
Con 8 - marketing Deathstar as QF flight numbers but with reduced service levels
Con 9 - taking revenue from partners knowing that the payback most likley will never have to be delivered (most points not used)
Con 10 - abusing the database listing of members for marketing of secondary partner goods

add

Con 11 - failing to manage a reliable award booking engine, which even shows actual availability let alone allows efficient compilation of multi-stop itineraries.

 

[simongr]

That's amazing that BA have vanished. I am assuming it is a temporary thing in advance of bedding down new fare buckets?

 

[dajop]

Yes! See here:

• http://www.frequentflyer.com.au/community/qantas-frequent-flyer/qantas-booking-class-code-changes-11228.html?highlight=premium

OK thanks serfty, so T is gone and replaced by X'. Interesting I rechecked my little experiment using a Bronze FF account and MEL-LHR seats availability was exactly same as for my Platinum account.

As an aside, the reason for looking was around dates to bring one of my partner's relatives from Moscow to Australia ( and back). Curiously, the best availability for QF for coming out was DME-MAD-JNB-SYD-MEL, with JNB-SYD showing 9's in all economy booking classes they let me request that sector but no luck. :evil: However, on SQ I waitlisted DME-SIN-MEL, without any expectation or hope, as the SIN-MEL sector was showing 0's in all booking classes.... but it came through as confirmed within 12 hours, go figure.

My other little conspiracy theory ... award availability will open up once the fuel fines are increased tomorrow.

 

[simongr]

Do QF charge fuel surcharges on other airlines' flights?

 

[NM]

Do QF charge fuel surcharges on other airlines' flights?

yes, they charge it on every ticketed sector (except those within or between USA and Canada), no matter which airline is operating the flight. And of course they don't pass that fuel fine on to the operating airline - they pocket it themselves.

 

[simongr]

OK that is a con

 

[NM]

OK that is a con

I do believe it to be a con. Especially when they charge a fuel surcharge for a service in which they do not incur any fuel costs. They justify it by the fact that other airlines do they same for flights operated by QF .

 

[simongr]

Interesting - I had never really been that fussed about fuel surcharges before as I dont personally care if they are in the ticket price or not (I am able to estimate that they will be added) and most QF points have been burned on QF upgrades or domestic QF flights.

This however is just wrong - other airlines dont charge fuel surcharges on award flights.

 

[NM]

This however is just wrong - other airlines dont charge fuel surcharges on award flights.

We are in violent agreement :!:

 

[straitman]

We are in violent agreement :!:

I didn't see you as the violent type NM.

 

[StevePER]

yes, they charge it on every ticketed sector (except those within or between USA and Canada), no matter which airline is operating the flight. And of course they don't pass that fuel fine on to the operating airline - they pocket it themselves.

I'm pretty sure they didn't charge me a fuel surcharge on PPT-SCL-EZE.