Flight cancelled - and all because of a wine stain

[DC3]

The reason we were given was that CBR had very recently become fogged in. And it is a bit foggy just now, granted.

We didn't hear the announcement about the
wine and the seat. But the passenger next to us did, and told staff she'd be happy to change to 17D, and couldn't care less if her jeans got a minor strain. She just wanted to get home after some extensive work travel. We're annoyed, but she's livid.

Anyhow, just waiting to see what the outcome might be. Given the fog and the number of people they need to sort out …

Ah, fog. Safety first. The wine was probably neither here nor there for all anyone really knows? Good that it was all sorted.

 

[jb747]

As a general rule, fog affects arrivals more than departures. That’s simply because the visibility requirements to take off are less than they are to land. Obviously, in the take off case you’re starting on the runway, whereas in the other not only do you have to find it, but you then need something to allow you to judge the flare. At airports that have low visibility approaches, the runway light spacing, and edge lighting all need specific closer spacing. At those airports the take off minima can be reduced, but I can’t find any specific figure for that in the AIP for Canberra. The visibility isn’t just guessed by a quick look out of the window either. It has be measured, by a system installed next to the runway, giving us a number call the RVR (runway visual range). The crew and aircraft then need specific ongoing training to be able to use these lower limits.

Your delay most certainly was not for a seat cover change. QF simply would have bumped one passenger and then gone. They may have taken the timing opportunity given by the delay to make the change, but it would not have been a relevant consideration. And the decision to go isn’t even a safety one. It’s legal. If the RVR is below that required, then you don’t go. No decision required.

As an aside, an engine failure above V1, in a heavy aircraft (i.e. one in which there’s a fair gap between V1 and Vr) on a minimum visibility takeoff, is a huge handful, and has a fair chance of ending on the grass.

 

[Groundfeeder]

After 13 years in Canberra (Queenbean actually) the best top was 42C and the lowest -9C.
Glad we moved back to Brisvegas where we get the tops but bottoms are tolerable.

 

[Horatio]

@jb747, thanks for all the great technical info. And I want to be absolutely clear that I'm not being flippant or cynical about safety or legal requirements. Never. I know my vision isn't what determines these outcomes.

And I also don't want to argue, or labour a point that I can't prove. But there was an announcement specifically about the seat. We heard the last bit clearly, which was 'we're fixing the seat so you have somewhere to sit'. So we assumed that was a safety issue itself, and fair enough if it was.

But others confirmed the start of the message only referenced the wine spillage. That just seems weird. At the time this announcement was made and we were waiting around, a couple of VA aircraft were still departing.

 

[CaptJCool]

Airfield lighting upgrades to Canberra Airport

Canberra Airport is upgrading our airfield lighting system

staging.canberraairport.com.au

This from 2018…

 

[jb747]

@jb747, thanks for all the great technical info. And I want to be absolutely clear that I'm not being flippant or cynical about safety or legal requirements. Never. I know my vision isn't what determines these outcomes.

And I also don't want to argue, or labour a point that I can't prove. But there was an announcement specifically about the seat. We heard the last bit clearly, which was 'we're fixing the seat so you have somewhere to sit'. So we assumed that was a safety issue itself, and fair enough if it was.

But others confirmed the start of the message only referenced the wine spillage. That just seems weird. At the time this announcement was made and we were waiting around, a couple of VA aircraft were still departing.

Gate staff virtually never know the actual reason for any delay, nor are they likely to understand it if told. Same as cabin crew. The fact that VA were departing is somewhat irrelevant. If you were still in the terminal, then you're at least 30 minutes from departure. If you look at last night's weather for Canberra, the vis rapidly reduced. Someone has to be the last to get away, or in, as the case may be.

 

[jb747]

This from 2018…

Yes, it has a Cat II approach. I looked at that.

 

[Horatio]

Gate staff virtually never know the actual reason for any delay, nor are they likely to understand it if told. Same as cabin crew. The fact that VA were departing is somewhat irrelevant. If you were still in the terminal, then you're at least 30 minutes from departure. If you look at last night's weather for Canberra, the vis rapidly reduced. Someone has to be the last to get away, or in, as the case may be.

OK, thanks, got it.

 

[DC3]

Flight cancelled - and all because of a wine stain

Probably not, but it’s a great thread title.

 

[CaptJCool]

Flight cancelled - and all because of a wine stain

Probably not, but it’s a great thread title.

Well defo better
Than

flight cancelled
For a Dropped wine bottle

 

[m535607]

Given the later flight took off why can't QF waited or were crew hours exceeded

 

[Happy Dude]

I've lived in CBR for 10yrs and haven't seen fog like that at night. I left the office at 7:30pm and my initial thought was that there was a fire. It wasn't any better at 9pm when I got home after shopping. I could barely see more than 50m and the driving conditions were shocking. The fog must have cleared better at the airport to have flights take off at 9pm but not at 7pm.

One of things you learn about living in CBR, usually the hard way, is that if flying out in winter, always - always - book the first flight of the morning.

 

[CaptJCool]

I've lived in CBR for 10yrs and haven't seen fog like that at night. I left the office at 7:30pm and my initial thought was that there was a fire. It wasn't any better at 9pm when I got home after shopping. I could barely see more than 50m and the driving conditions were shocking. The fog must have cleared better at the airport to have flights take off at 9pm but not at 7pm.

One of things you learn about living in CBR, usually the hard way, is that if flying out in winter, always - always - book the first flight of the morning.

The thing we learnt about Canberra as federal public servants was to fly in the night before as a foggy morning would see you in Sydney or Melbourne instead

It further entrenched the hotels full signs plus all that juicy travel allowances pocketed by the traveller… stash the cash while eating dinner in the lounge !

 

[Warragul]

I've lived in CBR for 10yrs and haven't seen fog like that at night. I left the office at 7:30pm and my initial thought was that there was a fire. It wasn't any better at 9pm when I got home after shopping. I could barely see more than 50m and the driving conditions were shocking. The fog must have cleared better at the airport to have flights take off at 9pm but not at 7pm.

One of things you learn about living in CBR, usually the hard way, is that if flying out in winter, always - always - book the first flight of the morning.

Exactly, I farewelled a family member on a 7pm flight last night and driving home thought geez this has come 8 hours early. Felt a bit like a spooky movie in our quiet cul de sac. Aforementioned family member wondered why he didn't see anything out the window just after takeoff.

 

[jb747]

Given the later flight took off why can't QF waited or were crew hours exceeded

Were there extra aircraft? Given that there were many diversions, the chances are that the complete complement aircraft was not present, so the later flight may well have been done by the aircraft scheduled for the earlier. On nights like this, you cannot just look at one flight and say, "they should have done this". You need to be aware of all of the flights and the disposition of all of the aircraft.

 

[Horatio]

Flight cancelled - and all because of a wine stain

Probably not, but it’s a great thread title.

Well, I guess if I had my time again, I'd have put a question mark at the end of it. But I was just going with the info I had at the time. And typing on the (proverbial) fly.

 

[fletty]

Well, I guess if I had my time again, I'd have put a question mark at the end of it. But I was just going with the info I had at the time. And typing on the (proverbial) fly.

It's made for an interesting discussion at least

 

[Pushka]

Hi all

Currently sitting in the CBR J lounge, having been booted off QF1285, CBR-MEL (scheduled for 18:45).

The reason we were given was that CBR had very recently become fogged in. And it is a bit foggy just now, granted.

BUT - the real cause was bringing in an engineer to replace a seat cushion in 17D following a wine spill. That created the initial 30 minute delay, during which time the skies were clear (and we'd already be in MEL by now).

We didn't hear the full announcement about the
wine and the seat. But the passenger next to us did, and told staff she'd be happy to change to 17D, and couldn't care less if her jeans got a minor strain. She just wanted to get home after some extensive work travel. We're annoyed, but she's livid.

Anyhow, just waiting to see what the outcome might be. Given the fog and the number of people they need to sort out, I'd say our chances of getting to Mordialloc for a 90th birthday tomorrow are looking slim at best.

Cheers,
Horatio

PS - Any other AFFers in the same boat?

Yep. Husbands flight Canberra to Adelaide was cancelled for fog last night at this time. The arrivals plane couldn't land.