FFP's FOR GOVERNMENT STAFF

[Groundfeeder]

In the Sunshine State, we don't get FF points (sacrificed for ticket discount they tell us) but do get SC's thankfully.

Just to contradict this long held policy, I noticed that I had received FF points and cabin bonus for my last flights to Rockvegas!

However I put this down to the Govt TA c*ck-up as she bungled a few requested changes as well as not putting my QC number in the system.

I shall remain schtum of course and observe any corrective actions to be taken by QF, if at all.

 

[JohnK]

I shall remain schtum of course and observe any corrective actions to be taken by QF, if at all.

Already taken care of now that you have posted here.

 

[Groundfeeder]

A pox on QF staff lurkers here.

JohnK, I shall attach a 15c COD stamp on your Xmas card this year for due penance in alerting said lurkers this day.

 

[Ray5]

I shall remain schtum of course and observe any corrective actions to be taken by QF, if at all.

wise counsell groundfeeder. if it's the state, rather than federal system that you're in, it's not QF you need to watch for - it's the blood-thirsty shrieking of the winged monkeys within the various ethical standards units scattered across the system which will chill the blood.

 

[Doug_Mi16]

(bump)

Apologies all for bumping an old thread, have been lurking for a while now.

I'm joining the ADF and transferring down to Melbourne in a few weeks ... just asked the recruitment person about FF points and was advised Defence Travel don't accept member's FF numbers.

I'll see what happens when I ring QFF and ask for my number to be added to the booking .. or just ask at SYD for my FFN to be added to the ticket.

Here's hoping anyway, I'm going to be commuting MEL-SYD at weekends because my fiancee is staying in SYD, don't want to miss out on those SCs!.

Cheers,

Doug

 

[coco50]

Welcome to the forum, Doug, even though you've been looking through the window. I reckon that asking the QF members line to attach your number to the booking is the best way. Give it a go:!: You've got nothing to lose but your smoker's cough.

 

[Mal]

(bump)
I'm joining the ADF and transferring down to Melbourne in a few weeks ... just asked the recruitment person about FF points and was advised Defence Travel don't accept member's FF numbers.

If claiming points as part of a Govt organisation, check your policies carefully. In certain organisations, this can lead to an investigation and possible penalties/job loss.

 

[Doug_Mi16]

If claiming points as part of a Govt organisation, check your policies carefully. In certain organisations, this can lead to an investigation and possible penalties/job loss.

Cheers Mal, I'll definitely check that out!

I'm really just after the SCs. I guess the problem with points for public servants is that they have a (nominal) monetary value and can be transferred. I'll see how I go.

-Doug

 

[Groundfeeder]

Amazing what a sleeper thread will awake!

My previous post about receiving FF points on Gov't travel was not a mistake. I was talking to our departmental auditor and he said that points are being awarded for travel simply because it was too difficult to prevent and costly to audit!

So now my activity sheet is growing with points and SC's weekly!!

 

[ziggypop]

Some years ago a certain bank large bank took an employee to court because she was using her points for private purposes. The bank paid for the fare but the employee paid for the FF membership and I think the relevant club lounge out of her own pocket. The Federal court held that the bank was incorrect and the employee was in fact entitled to the points and could use them as she saw fit.

One of the findings of the court was that the contract for flying did not exist until the actual bum was on the seat and the gate closed ro something like that. The points are awarded to the actual person flying who has paid the membership and not the person/entity who paid for the fare. It is a loyalty thing.

It is rare for a Government department to actually be able to get the airline to not apply the points. Even harder if teh contracted TA is not airline affiliated, they have no interest in the matter as they get nothing out of applying the number to your profile or not.

So you can happily apply your FF number to any profile at a TA (corporate or private) and get the points.

cheers

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Whereas a court in Germany recently ruled in favour of the employer - that the miles belong to them!!

 

[Doug_Mi16]

Can o'worms!

It seems that according to 'the rules' Govt employees (including ADF members) can't use points accrued for work-related travel for personal use. Something to do with a taxpayer-funded expense being used for personal benefit.

It does sound incredibly complex though - if, for example, you're a long-time NB like me (since 2001, used to be Ansett) and have, for example again 60,000 pts. Which of those are taxpayer funded and which aren't?

 

[serfty]

Consider the regular travller who would have made QF PS from their paid work travel; but due to a personally paid J RTW are now QF WP. would notionally own the WP bonus points for a MEL-PER paid work trip?

 

[ziggypop]

Basically what the German court(s) held is irrelevant to Australia. The full Federal Court held that the points were personal (as the individual had paid for the FF membership and the contract for the points was between the airline and the member who paid) and the Airlines indicated that who paid for the ticket was also irrelevant - the contract (for points) was with the bum on the seat as regards to points. The court agreed. Therefore using points is for your purposes is none of the Government's business. If they don't like it they can always enact legislation to prevent such an occurence. the fact that there is no such legislation to date gives us some settled law until it is changed.

However, if the relevant company/Department of State paid for the QP and/or FF membership they may be entitled to points accruing from corporate travel (as they paid the membership and they accrued the expense out of public funds) and the usual public service type regulations apply, no arguement there.

another scenario for you all....

If I for example, was asked to do a trip to Perth from Canberra, and the I booked the trip through the Dept's TA contract, I pay the difference for a J upgrade out of my own pocket in some form or another either cash or points upgrade. That is my privilege and there is not a thing the Department could do about it unless they prohibited such a thing in my employment contract and I had agreed and signed that contract with clause included in it.

cheers

 

[JohnK]

It is rare for a Government department to actually be able to get the airline to not apply the points.....

So you can happily apply your FF number to any profile at a TA (corporate or private) and get the points.

I am not against government employees earning SC's or FF points when flying but a question for someone who may know the answer.

Don't some government departments, or even private enterprise, negotiate airfares with airlines that are not eligible for SC's or FF points?

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Basically what the German court(s) held is irrelevant to Australia.

Of course it's irrelevant to Australia. However, it is AFAIK the first court anywhere to rule that way so may be a sign of changes to come. Or it could be overturned by a higher court.

 

[Kiwi Flyer]

Don't some government departments, or even private enterprise, negotiate airfares with airlines that are not eligible for SC's or FF points?

Yes


(dang 10 character limit)

 

[Mal]

Public servants operate under "Codes of Ethics" and "Guidelines" and all other forms of Buzz words for the rules.

Some of them are pedantic and excessive. Take for example ones forcing a public sector employee to record "gifts" over a certain value, and that decrees gifts to be public property (Ie, if the employee wants to use the gift for their personal use, then they have to "buy" the gift from the employer at the fair market value). Take the ones that decree that FF points are not to be acrued for travel, or that FF points earnt on official travel cannot be used for upgrades Etc. This is all done to provide accountability and proper use of taxpayer funds (aka, the "avoid front page of the newspaper" syndrome)

While people may not agree with the rules, these are a core component of the guidelines that a public sector employee works under. Not declare a gift of a certain value? It can lead to investigation, sanctions or dismissal (or possibly even criminal charges if the corruption/bribery is suspected). Claim FF points on a piece of travel where the guidelines tell you not to? Same story.

I don't see how previous landmark court decisions affect contracts between individuals and their employer where the contract sets down a set of rules that are not "unjust". (Well they may be unjust to some, but I doubt the court sees it that way).

 

[Tiki]

I do accounts payable for a QLD govt entity. Employees are required to submit their boarding passes for reimbursement and they have to sign a statement that the FF points would not be used for personal use. I don't know what fare bucket they book in. I'm not sure if the employee could get around this by not giving their FF number until after the BP is printed? I don't know if the travel section follows up on whether or not FF points are accrued or not. I'm just a temp so they don't tell me much!

 

[coco50]

[quote=Doug_Mi16]Can o'worms!

It seems that according to 'the rules' Govt employees (including ADF members) can't use points accrued for work-related travel for personal use. Something to do with a taxpayer-funded expense being used for personal benefit.

It does sound incredibly complex though - if, for example, you're a long-time NB like me (since 2001, used to be Ansett) and have, for example again 60,000 pts. Which of those are taxpayer funded and which aren't?[/quote

However with some Commonwealth Govt Departments they ask for your FF number and attach it to your booking. Only problem with the one I contract to is that sometimes they insist on BFOD. But there are ways around that. Getting the SCs and the FF points is the main aim