Exit Row - sight impaired pax?

[bambbbam2]

Was on a QF SYD-ADL flight on Friday night and as I was boarding, I noticed a sight impaired man (with cane) and his carer (?) in an exit row.

I don't mean to sound insensitive, but was this really appropriate?

Thankfully they were required to be called upon.

Am I being reasonable or discriminatory in my objection?

 

[Mal]

Maybe. Feel free to complain to CASA or Qantas about it.

Exit conditions are clearly known, and as CASA says:
Safer air travel - Answers to passengers frequently asked questions

What is different when I sit in an exit row?

A passenger seated in an emergency exit row may be called on to assist crew members in the unlikely event of an emergency evacuation.

These passengers must be:

* Able-bodied.
* At least 15 years old.
* Able to understand and converse in English.
* Willing to provide assistance in an emergency.

They cannot be:

* Travelling with an infant.
* Travelling with someone who requires their assistance in an emergency

Cabin crew can move a passenger if they do not meet the criteria. Passengers can ask to be moved to another seat if they are uncomfortable with the requirements of being an overwing exit row passenger.

 

[straitman]

bambbbam2,

I would have made a representation to the CSM.

Quite simply it is a breach of safety protocols and I'm sure the captain would not have allowed it had he/she know.

 

[Evan]

What aircraft ? if it was one that had flight crew on the opposite side like the 747's do then i think its ok is it not ? But if you were on something else it would not be.
(Yes i know a 744 would not fly this route normally but i cant remember what the exact config of the other possibles are on this route)
E

 

[bambbbam2]

I was confused earlier.

It was ADL-SYD on a 738.

The impaired person would have been in seat E in the exit row..

 

[medhead]

I think this is a bit OTT. Having a cane tells you nothing about the level of vision impairment. Many vision impaired people are quite able to function totally normally. A vision impaired person would be quite able to tick yes to all the exit row criteria. The only question might arise over being able bodied - isn't that about being able to operate the emergency exit. Many vision impaired people are quite capable of moving from a seat and operating the emergency exit without any help. In a smoke filled cabin they might be able to see just as much as a full sighted person.

As for the carer - or perhaps could they have been their partner, or sibling or child or parent?

Hopefully the airline had already checked all the maybes and didn't just ignore the emergency requirements.

 

[_kab_]

*sigh* I was denied an exit row just recently because I was wearing a surgical support 'device' - stupidly I made a joke about it (it wasn't visible to the girl at check-in) and she advised me that "disabled people" cannot be put in exit rows. Both I and the OH look at each other as if to say WTF

 

[NYCguy]

CASA "suggests" that passengers in an exit row need to be "able bodied", which suggests to me that if a passenger requires any sort of mobility-aid, an airline is within their rights to disqualify from the passenger from sitting in that row.

Of course, one can make the argument that a passenger who uses a white-cane to mobilize is also using a mobility-aid, and should be allocated a different seat.

Long-gone are the days of arriving at the airport on crutches and being given an exit-row seat because you need to rest your leg...

 

[serfty]

Here's the relevant text of statement you need to concur with to make an on-line exit row seat selection on JQ:

Extra Leg Room seats are selected seats located in the Exit Rows of our aircraft. In order to sit in an Extra Leg Room seat, you must satisfy the following general criteria applicable to Exit Rows:

• Be at least 15 years or older
• Be able to understand and carry out instructions
• Not be travelling with someone that requires your assistance in an emergency
• Not have any permanent or temporary impairment (e.g. deaf, hearing impaired, blind, vision impaired, any strength or mobility limitation, intellectual impairment or travelling with a service dog)
• Be able to check outside conditions and react to crew commands
• Be able to reach, open, lift and throw out the 15kg (approx 33lbs) exit door in an emergency
• Acknowledge the exit row briefing given by Cabin Crew once onboard the aircraft
• Be willing to assist in the unlikely event of an emergency
• Not be seated with an infant
• Not require the use of an extension seat belt
• Not be elderly

-- Additional Terms and Conditions --
Extra Leg Room Seats are non transferable and non refundable.

Jetstar has the sole discretion at check-in, or boarding, to determine whether a passenger meets the requirements to sit in an exit row seat (which may include an Extra Leg Room Seat). If the passenger does not meet the requirements, the passenger will be assigned a regular economy seat and Jetstar will not provide a refund of the additional amount paid to sit in an Extra Leg Room seat.

If between the date of purchasing the seat and 24 hours before travel, you become unable to fulfil the requirements to sit in an exit row, you should notify Jetstar immediately. You will be transferred to a regular economy seat, and, at its discretion, Jetstar may refund you the additional amount paid to sit in an Extra Leg Room seat.

In the event of a flight disruption, Jetstar will attempt to seat you in an Extra Leg Room seat, but cannot guarantee that such a seat will be available on your new flight.

If, in accordance with the JetSaver or JetSaver Light fare rules, you choose to move to a different flight, you will be allocated an Extra Leg Room seat if available at the time the change is made. However, if an Extra Leg Room seat is unavailable, Jetstar will not provide a refund of the additional amount paid to sit in an Extra Leg Room seat.

 

[medhead]

Of course, one can make the argument that a passenger who uses a white-cane to mobilize is also using a mobility-aid, and should be allocated a different seat.

Long-gone are the days of arriving at the airport on crutches and being given an exit-row seat because you need to rest your leg...

Here in lies the failure of the logic. A white cane is not nessecarily required to mobilise. A vision impaired person does not require a cane to help them walk, they only need it to identify obstacles. Further, people with a range of vision impairments use white canes. Many of them will be quite able to assist in an emergency and in fact more so then many vision able people in a smoke filled environment. Un like someone on crutches who absolutely cannot stand up and walk between a row of seats without assistance.

Just because someone has a white cane it does not mean they are not able bodied. Further the OP has no idea what assessment has been made of this particular pax. And I think most speculation here so far is based on particular assumptions that are likely to be totally wrong. The OP has a fair question but it would have been better asking the airline.

I was wearing a surgical support 'device'

I have no idea what this means but the question to ask is; Would this device make you less then able to care out the required function in the case of an emergency? If not then, I would have objected to not getting the exit row, greatly.

BTW I'm speaking from an opposite situation, I have a condition that is not immediately evident and everyone assumes that I'm normal (putting me in danger once or twice). I would question my ability in an exit row, but I'm sure that no one here would look at me getting that exit row and ask a similiar question as the OP. I would suggest great caution when judging a book by its cover.

 

[_kab_]

I have no idea what this means but the question to ask is; Would this device make you less then able to care out the required function in the case of an emergency? If not then, I would have objected to not getting the exit row, greatly.

It was a compression garment
Not exactly something that would deem one "disabled" I would have thought but, according to Qantas...

 

[nlagalle]

Here in lies the failure of the logic. A white cane is not nessecarily required to mobilise. A vision impaired person does not require a cane to help them walk, they only need it to identify obstacles. Further, people with a range of vision impairments use white canes. Many of them will be quite able to assist in an emergency and in fact more so then many vision able people in a smoke filled environment. Un like someone on crutches who absolutely cannot stand up and walk between a row of seats without assistance.

Just because someone has a white cane it does not mean they are not able bodied. Further the OP has no idea what assessment has been made of this particular pax. And I think most speculation here so far is based on particular assumptions that are likely to be totally wrong. The OP has a fair question but it would have been better asking the airline.

I have no idea what this means but the question to ask is; Would this device make you less then able to care out the required function in the case of an emergency? If not then, I would have objected to not getting the exit row, greatly.

BTW I'm speaking from an opposite situation, I have a condition that is not immediately evident and everyone assumes that I'm normal (putting me in danger once or twice). I would question my ability in an exit row, but I'm sure that no one here would look at me getting that exit row and ask a similiar question as the OP. I would suggest great caution when judging a book by its cover.

However in the case where they would need to assist in removing the emergency door, then being able-bodied would also means having the sight to be able to perform that task. Would you want a vision impaired person trying to open the overwing exit?

 

[medhead]

However in the case where they would need to assist in removing the emergency door, then being able-bodied would also means having the sight to be able to perform that task. Would you want a vision impaired person trying to open the overwing exit?

That's my point, you don't need sight to do that physical task. It can be done by feel. Provided that the airline had done a proper assessment of the person, I'd be very happy with a vision impaired person opening the overwing exit.

But then I have doubts about my ability to do so in a timely manner to the point that I'd let the man with the stick have a go first.

 

[medhead]

It was a compression garment
Not exactly something that would deem one "disabled" I would have thought but, according to Qantas...

Well I'd at least write a letter to QF about that. Complete rubbish to consider that not able bodied

 

[_kab_]

Well I'd at least write a letter to QF about that. Complete rubbish to consider that not able bodied

Have done exactly that (FWIW).

As I suggested to them, much more appropriate IMO to decline my request for an exit aisle seat based on (lack of) QFF status - surely the real reason methinks - rather than likening my situation to that of someone with a real disability.

Their BS claim was that, in my situtation, wearing compression pantyhose impairs one's ability to move quickly in the event of an emergency (and as such I could not be seated in an exit row). I guess that explains why I never see people in really tight jeans in the exit aisles; they're a menace to our safety!

 

[nlagalle]

That's my point, you don't need sight to do that physical task. It can be done by feel. Provided that the airline had done a proper assessment of the person, I'd be very happy with a vision impaired person opening the overwing exit.

I'd disagree on that. you also have to take into account the impaired person having to climb out first and assist. I think that is pushing the boundaries.

But then all of this is a personal opinion.

 

[munitalP]

I was recently on a JQ flight - 2 PAX in their very senior years were in the Exit Row B&C. Mrs Pax required the use of a cane to move. :shock:

CSM waited for the flight to board completly then quietly informed Mrs Pax that she wouldn't be able to sit there and nearly quoted the reasons in serfty's post.

The 2 Pax became very unreasonable as Mr Pax decided that because he had paid extra for the seats, the seats were his...

CSM was polite in pointing out that while Mrs Pax was in the Exit row seating, the plane wouldn't be moving from where it was sitting in SYD and Mr Pax may do well in rethinking his position on this matter!

The CSM found seating ahead of the exit row where a single Pax moved and gave the other two 3 vacant seats - a better outcome in my opinion anyway!

Double thumbs up for the JQ CSM

Mr!

 

[UP4014]

If the person (or carer) has a mobility parking permit, I would think that would exclude them from the exit row.

If the person never uses one of these car spaces and can walk through a supermarket car park unassisted then.............................

 

[docjames]

MEL-BNE last night 737-400 was in row 11, Pax in Row 12 (second exit row) were a middle aged woman 2 other women who seemed to be her mother and aunt (or similar!). now, given the two older women (they looked to me to be mid-70s at least) couldnt get their luggage into the overhead, how were they going to lift a 17kg door and "throw it out the window" in an emergency?

I must ad, the flight crew (and daughter) assisted them putting the bags up, but the crew didnt bat an eyelid as they read the safety briefing.


I didnt make a fuss at the time, but possibly should have. I mean, my wife (who is slim) gets asked almost every time we sit there: "are you sure you can lift that weight" - she now has a standard reply "well my dog's 26kg and i can lift him so......."


Imight add the crew seemed generally sloppy yesterday (public holiday).

 

[pblackm]

It worries me that in the USA, they ask exit row pax if they speak English, but not here. I did SYD/ADL for about two years, mostly in 737s where you have to lift the hatch in, rotate it and throw it out. On many 8am flights, there would be many pax from Intl connections, and many oldies (OK I'm not so young either) would have the window seat. I sat next to many Asian and one Spanish speaking guy who could not understand the repeated instruction about baggage under seats in the exit row, yet they were never moved. They never read the card either. Out of Canberra, it is stunning to see how mnay petite young ladies get window exit row seats. Some look barely strong enough to do the hatch thing. I think that after watching the Hudson River ditch, I'm going to be be more proactive and complain to the FA.