Ethiopian 737 Max 8 crash and Fallout

[Deleted member 29185]

Programming planes to crash

Bit harsh. I saw someone's comment about Boeing trying to solve a hardware plane design problem with software.

sometimes one has to call it as it is. This aircraft does has software that will crash the plane in certain circumstances, without manual intervention. As for the fixing a hardware problem with software, that's done all the time. A number of specialist military aircraft (B-2 springs to mind) can't be flown without the computers.

 

[kamchatsky]

EDIT - I do feel for Boeing somewhat, as they wanted to design and build a whole new aircraft, but were railroaded into this re-powered option by some powerful clients.

Well I think Boeing has way too much influence in FAA, and unfortunately I cannot feel sorry for them.

Opinion | The 737 Max Is Grounded, No Thanks to the F.A.A.

 

[Quickstatus]

Is ET sending the flight recorder orange boxes to France’s BEA (their transport accident investigation authority) a strategic snub at the FAA/NTSB and Boeing?

 

[CaptJCool]

Lionair 610 crash

I was a tad early posting this........

How much did you win from the bet?


I bet this will lead to the entire 737 (MAX8) grousing .

 

[jb747]

sometimes one has to call it as it is. This aircraft does has software that will crash the plane in certain circumstances, without manual intervention.

Which immediately falls into the category of dumb, and poorly thought out software.

As for the fixing a hardware problem with software, that's done all the time. A number of specialist military aircraft (B-2 springs to mind) can't be flown without the computers.

Yes, and no. The 737 is a old airframe that should be fixable by aerodynamic means. The B2 is a novel configuration, operated by FBW. I doubt that the B2 would be able to pass the standards required for civil airliner certification.

Is ET sending the flight recorder orange boxes to France’s BEA (their transport accident investigation authority) a strategic snub at the FAA/NTSB and Boeing?

France is one of the countries that has the ability to read these recordings. I don't see it as a snub. France, UK, Germany would have been places that came immediately to mind when the locals decided they didn't have the ability. Mind you, keeping it out of US hands probably isn't such a bad idea.

 

[woodborer]

Is ET sending the flight recorder orange boxes to France’s BEA (their transport accident investigation authority) a strategic snub at the FAA/NTSB and Boeing?

Maybe it was just closer.

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Yes, and no. The 737 is a old airframe that should be fixable by aerodynamic means. The B2 is a novel configuration, operated by FBW.

Definitely. I didn't mean to imply the 737 was akin to the B-2. I was trying to simply point out that a blanket statement that you can't/shouldn't fix hardware problems with software was not an entirely correct statement.

 

[kelvedon]

Maybe it was just closer.

I think it was a deliberate decision to send it to France. The FAA's hesitance to ground the Maxs' smelt of politics....though how close is the BEA to Airbus?

 

[Deleted member 29185]

Well I think Boeing has way too much influence in FAA, and unfortunately I cannot feel sorry for them.

Opinion | The 737 Max Is Grounded, No Thanks to the F.A.A.

Yeah, but ... (don't you just hate it when people start a sentence with that) Boeing has been a Goliath in the aviation industry and many, many of us have trusted the brand unreservedly. It was also the FAA who made those changes giving aircraft manufacturers greater oversight powers, not Boeing itself (although I'm quite sure there was behind the scenes lobbying in full swing). Boeing also wanted to redesign a new aircraft from the ground up, but were coerced by some very powerful clients of theirs not to.

Boeing has made, what appears to be lethal mistakes, but I think there are others in this fray that are far from innocent bystanders.

 

[kamchatsky]

I think it was a deliberate decision to send it to France. The FAA's hesitance to ground the Maxs' smelt of politics....though how close is the BEA to Airbus?

As long as the black boxes are not sent via 737 Max.....

 

[kamchatsky]

Yeah, but ... (don't you just hate it when people start a sentence with that) Boeing has been a Goliath in the aviation industry and many, many of us have trusted the brand unreservedly. It was also the FAA who made those changes giving aircraft manufacturers greater oversight powers, not Boeing itself (although I'm quite sure there was behind the scenes lobbying in full swing). Boeing also wanted to redesign a new aircraft from the ground up, but were coerced by some very powerful clients of theirs not to.

Boeing has made, what appears to be lethal mistakes, but I think there are others in this fray that are far from innocent bystanders.

I am sure they have powerful clients. But so does Airbus. The question is who are those powerful clients that coerced them not to build from the ground up?

 

[Berlin]

France is one of the countries that has the ability to read these recordings. I don't see it as a snub. France, UK, Germany would have been places that came immediately to mind when the locals decided they didn't have the ability. Mind you, keeping it out of US hands probably isn't such a bad idea.

According to Germany’s SPIEGEL (in German, but if you want/ can read it, here’s the link Boeing 737 Max 8: Deutsche Behörde will Blackbox nicht auswerten - SPIEGEL ONLINE), they had inquired with Germany’s ‘Bundesstelle für Flugunfalluntersuchung’ (equivalent of the BEA/FAA) first. But apparently, they turned it down because they don’t have the necessary software for this aircraft type. I wonder if France does?

 

[Quickstatus]

I am sure they have powerful clients. But so does Airbus. The question is who are those powerful clients that coerced them not to build from the ground up?

Perhaps WN

 

[Quickstatus]

I wonder if France does?

Yes BEA does

 

[kelvedon]

My hu

I am sure they have powerful clients. But so does Airbus. The question is who are those powerful clients that coerced them not to build from the ground up?

presumably AA, UA etc who would not have to retrain their 737 pilots

 

[Quickstatus]

My hu

presumably AA, UA etc who would not have to retrain their 737 pilots

WN is an all 737 fleet - mainly the -300, -800 and the Max

 

[Berlin]

Yes BEA does

Good. Then France is definitely a better choice than sending it to the US whete they’d just get rid of any evidence of maldoing on Boeing’s side.

 

[woodborer]

Yeah, but ... (don't you just hate it when people start a sentence with that) Boeing has been a Goliath in the aviation industry and many, many of us have trusted the brand unreservedly. It was also the FAA who made those changes giving aircraft manufacturers greater oversight powers, not Boeing itself (although I'm quite sure there was behind the scenes lobbying in full swing). Boeing also wanted to redesign a new aircraft from the ground up, but were coerced by some very powerful clients of theirs not to.

Boeing has made, what appears to be lethal mistakes, but I think there are others in this fray that are far from innocent bystanders.

New planes have their problems too - remember the 787 was itself grounded for a period of time.

 

[jb747]

New planes have their problems too - remember the 787 was itself grounded for a period of time.

It could probably be argued that the 787 battery problems are part of the same malaise. A quite suspect engineering decision initially, followed up with a barely acceptable fix. And this is on a brand new aircraft.

And how many people would be getting on 787s if those battery problems had resulted in the loss of two aircraft, and given their loadings, many more lives. Remember too, that many regulatory authorities are allowing 787 to operate around 5 hours from the nearest spot that they could land in the event of a problem.

The 787 batteries haven't actually been fixed...they've just been placed into a very strong box from which they can't burn their way out. As that's the backup power source for the aircraft, I wonder how long it will be before that catches someone out. All because they wanted to save the weight involved in fitting a RAT. Which doesn't catch fire.

 

[Berlin]

New planes have their problems too - remember the 787 was itself grounded for a period of time.

What do those two have in common again? Oh yea. If it’s Boeing, I ain’t going...