Emirates hikes up carrier charges on reward seats

[CaptJCool]

so I Did a lil calculation on this

would agree F is best

there;s only F all F seats left - the few EK I could find are ex Brisbane (28 Feb, 3 March, 16 April and 13 May) to Vienna but a host of return from Vienna to brissy dates in March/April/May

455,000 points and $3,669
so on Top-Up points that be $8,000 plus $3,669 = $11,669

the F special this year was $13,999 (pre-Covid this F special was $9,999)
Current pricing ex Australia is $18-$19,000 return
same flights ex New Zealand are $14,800-$15,500
Current pricing ex Europe especially the departure points that were F cheap return is now at least $17,667 to over $20,000 (and these were the two cheap departure points - not anymore)

Current J is a whopping $18,500 return ! So rewards seats are Sweet FA
by late October J ex Australia around $9,500 ex NZ around $9,100
vs the Etihad special around $4,800 return (or Phillipines/EK $5,533) or Etihad Sydney to Vienna $5,076 with the 20% off SUMMERSPLASH code

$4,800 Etihad MEL/SYD to Copenhagen Business Class

What happens if you get off the Flight at AMS instead of going through to Copenhagen

www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au

Fly less to pay more!

 

[Happy Dude]

The impression I get is that they don't actually want people redeeming their miles for J or F. Considering the cabins are often full anyway (from people buying tickets), you can see why they would feel that way.

The part I believe Emirates is missing is that without compelling redemption options, people will stop collecting Skywards miles and engaging with the loyalty program - which is probably worse for the airline in the long run.

And worse for the rest of us too, in a “more piranhas in the tank” sense.

Those that do have an issue with the jacked up fees will flock to more palatable options.

 

[levelnine]

And worse for the rest of us too, in a “more piranhas in the tank” sense.

Those that do have an issue with the jacked up fees will flock to more palatable options.

Yes and no. I still see plenty of novices on Facebook/Reddit/OzBargain/etc paying extortionate carrier charges to redeem on Emirates, especially as it'll give them a cool Instagram post of them sitting at the bar of an EK A380.

In general, I think savvy points users underestimate how many people are willing to engage with points programs that are terrible value.

Delta is a classic example. A terrible frequent flyer program with terrible points values, yet is the biggest program in the US and is by far and away Amex's biggest points partner.

I think lack of availability hurts a program's viability more than high redemption costs. If you can't redeem, you disengage. If you can redeem, plenty of people will still think it's good value as long as you're saving something compared to cash prices. Eg 'I bought this $30,000 Emirates first class ticket for just $5,000 & 500K points' still sounds great to the average punter even though savvy people know that is awful.

 

[Happy Dude]

Yes it certainly seems there’s no shortage of folks plonking down mega points and fees to EK, based on whatever reasoning.

However, there’s no doubt more people are looking for better value elsewhere which makes for more competition. I’m one. Just booked my first J flight on AY.

 

[SOPOOR]

Yes it certainly seems there’s no shortage of folks plonking down mega points and fees to EK, based on whatever reasoning.

However, there’s no doubt more people are looking for better value elsewhere which makes for more competition. I’m one. Just booked my first J flight on AY.

I paid the high fees because my miles were about to expire......

It went against every bone in my body

 

[jetset]

Yes and no. I still see plenty of novices on Facebook/Reddit/OzBargain/etc sucking up the carrier charges to redeem on Emirates, especially as it'll give them a cool Instagram post of them sitting at the bar of an EK A380.

In general, I think savvy points users underestimate how many people are willing to engage with points programs that are terrible value.

I've noticed the same thing with the boomer crowd on Facebook posting their terrible redemptions or worse yet, buying top-up points... I've had arguments explaining why certain redemptions are a waste of money (Qantas Marketplace, Emirates, Points + Pay etc). But there are always people who will be happy to take *any* discount.

The impression I get is that they don't actually want people redeeming their miles for J or F. Considering the cabins are often full anyway (from people buying tickets), you can see why they would feel that way.

The part I believe Emirates is missing is that without compelling redemption options, people will stop collecting Skywards miles and engaging with the loyalty program - which is probably worse for the airline in the long run.

I totally agree! I get the same impression. It's pretty clear that carriers don't want customers redeeming miles for premium cabins when they can fill the seats with revenue customers. Which is fine by me, it's a business after all. It has to be sustainable, and frequent flyer programs are usually based on the principle of providing unsold seats to loyal customers.

My issue is when Emirates provides 'reward' seats but then charges these ridiculous surcharges which are approaching the cash price of a seat. I find that highly misleading. Emirates don't have to run a rewards program. Nobody is putting a gun to their head. But if they choose to offer a rewards program then it shouldn't be an outright scam.

 

[SOPOOR]

I've noticed the same thing with the boomer crowd on Facebook posting their terrible redemptions or worse yet, buying top-up points... I've had arguments explaining why certain redemptions are a waste of money (Qantas Marketplace, Emirates, Points + Pay etc). But there are always people who will be happy to take *any* discount.


I totally agree! I get the same impression. It's pretty clear that carriers don't want customers redeeming miles for premium cabins when they can fill the seats with revenue customers. Which is fine by me, it's a business after all. It has to be sustainable, and frequent flyer programs are usually based on the principle of providing unsold seats to loyal customers.

My issue is when Emirates provides 'reward' seats but then charges these ridiculous surcharges which are approaching the cash price of a seat. I find that highly misleading. Emirates don't have to run a rewards program. Nobody is putting a gun to their head. But if they choose to offer a rewards program then it shouldn't be an outright scam.

One of my elderly relatives i had to explain over and over again, to not redeem their qantas miles.
Their example was like 200k points + $2000,

I asked them how much was the cash fare?: $1800

They insisted they didnt want to waste their points, and i virtually had to ban them from redeeming that flight!

 

[aikman]

I don't think Skywards was ever popular with points blogs and points collectors. I don't think Emirates really cares that this is the case. Their airline operation has a good product that people actually want to pay for even without a loyalty program. Qantas on the other hand...

 

[Mattg]

I paid the high fees because my miles were about to expire......

It went against every bone in my body

And after doing that, I bet you haven't engaged with the Skywards program again. Which was exactly the point I was making above

 

[SOPOOR]

And after doing that, I bet you haven't engaged with the Skywards program again. Which was exactly the point I was making above

Absolutely!
Its also becauae they gouged the surcahrges 4 to 5 times in 2022
If it was pre gouging prices, i would reconsider even though their fees were still higher than competitors

 

[Mzungu]

But a lot of paid F will still earn a shedload of pts going begging for what? Toasters? You can’t exactly use them for upgrades.

Yes, that is a significant dilemma. I have almost a million Skywards miles which never expire as I'm EK platinum. The only thing I can use them for is obtaining business reward seats for my 2 daughters. At more than 400k miles each, that uses up my miles quite quickly.

At this point, I can hear SOPOOR and Duffa snorting that I am doing exactly what I was commenting on. And they would be right to do so. And needless to say, I do worry that obtaining reward seats for my daughters may potentially be denying Duffa and SOPOOR a reward seat or upgrade in Business!

 

[Mzungu]

Yea, Ako I bet you a slab of VB your a••e has never graced a paid F seat.
This forum is called AFF; for people who share stories about flying upfront and not paying revenue. If you can afford $15,000 for a return flight then why are you here?
With the greatest respect.....

Sorry Duffa, but I'm always in a paid F seat. So I will be taking delivery of that VB as soon as you can procure it with you QFF points or Skywards miles.

I don't agree with you. I believe we all have something to contribute here regardless of how we travel, how we purchase our fares or the size of the chip on our shoulder.

And I must correct you. An EK F fare is between AUD 16K and 19K return, depending upon destination. At the end of the day, we all make choices about how we spend our hard-earned dollars. And we should be able to do so without criticism. Nobody is better than anyone else. Everyone on this planet has one life, one unit of value. Always, no matter who or where we are.

Although I question whether that can apply to Vladimir Putin.......

 

[Mzungu]

Why do you have such animosity towards redemption users? Did one of them kick you out of your booking/seat?

I've never had that happen!

Although I have heard of mega wealthy Emiratis insisting that they be moved to a window seat, making the FAs go around the cabin asking window seat passengers if they are prepared to move.

 

[Mzungu]

its ironic that if the ticket they purchased with cash goes up by similar amounts/% they would be complaining just as loud

They go up like all other tickets. Nobody likes to pay more for something. The difference is that we don't whinge as much.

 

[CaptJCool]

Sorry Duffa, but I'm always in a paid F seat. So I will be taking delivery of that VB as soon as you can procure it with you QFF points or Skywards miles.

I don't agree with you. I believe we all have something to contribute here regardless of how we travel, how we purchase our fares or the size of the chip on our shoulder.

And I must correct you. An EK F fare is between AUD 16K and 19K return, depending upon destination. At the end of the day, we all make choices about how we spend our hard-earned dollars. And we should be able to do so without criticism. Nobody is better than anyone else. Everyone on this planet has one life, one unit of value. Always, no matter who or where we are.

Although I question whether that can apply to Vladimir Putin.......

There seems to be a level for which this amount of $ self funded or paid by “some business owners” is viable
QF Analytics publicised this years ago 2012



until now it’s not been me
But life changes
You marry and perhaps divorce
Your kids grow up going to public school and leave home
Your tax-free superannuation kicks in and then voila you got the excess cash to splash

However, a cursory look at private college fees tells us some families afford $25,000 per year per child
I know someone in that mix
Wealthy Grandparents who went there pay
Migrant family group all make a contribution towards a child
You earn two $100,000 plus salaries
Predominantly professionals and these days highly posh tradies
Because it’s a 5 year gig
$180,000 at Cranbrook is the going rate but when you got a share portfolio or owners shares ($110 million home bought for cash by an old scholar MCB) this is “kleingled”

I once met some lads from there at the Sydney central railway station doing charity collection
While giving a donation I reminded them how lucky they were going there to which they responded yes we are

So yes the aspiration is to “fly F forever free”
Unfortunately it does involve playing the paying game OR
using the AFF collective knowledge to build the FF points TO BURN points on what’s in effect because of the taxes and surcharges (a staff discount) 10% of price rate

 

[Mzungu]

After 10 paid F flights you can upgrade to sit on the pilots knee?

The pilot cannot fully recline!

 

[SOPOOR]

Yes, that is a significant dilemma. I have almost a million Skywards miles which never expire as I'm EK platinum. The only thing I can use them for is obtaining business reward seats for my 2 daughters. At more than 400k miles each, that uses up my miles quite quickly.

At this point, I can hear SOPOOR and Duffa snorting that I am doing exactly what I was commenting on. And they would be right to do so. And needless to say, I do worry that obtaining reward seats for my daughters may potentially be denying Duffa and SOPOOR a reward seat or upgrade in Business!

I have no problems with people redeeming their miles, at forced high miles. Its the whole prinicpal of the gouging i hate. Or when they outright lie or bend the truth to suit their agenda.

Its a first come first serve situation. I have copped flak for saying the following but i believe we should have the righr to use our miles on ANY avaialable cash flight.

 

[Mzungu]

I have no problems with people redeeming their miles, at forced high miles. Its the whole prinicpal of the gouging i hate. Or when they outright lie or bend the truth to suit their agenda.

Its a first come first serve situation. I have copped flak for saying the following but i believe we should have the righr to use our miles on ANY avaialable cash flight.

I hear you. Everyone always wants that but it will never happen as airlines set the rules to maximise their cash income to give them the best possible chance that their business will survive. All businesses are the same. There is no room for sentimentality, especially when running an airline where there are huge risks and expenses which can only be offset by maximising fees and charges wherever possible.

Emirates has the network and the timetables that people want. So they are very successful at gouging. They ignore the sentiment of loyalty. They don't give a toss about people like me in higher tier levels, we are already captured. Emirates is only looking for new and aspirational travellers who are desperate to make it to the front of the plane by any means and who often don't know how expensive Emirates are. The advertising has people hooked. They want to experience that suite with the doors and will allow themselves to be gouged to get there.