Email from QFF [FF Account suspended]

[love_the_life]

Or if still wanting to fly QF, book with a travel agent without amassing QFpoints.
Going to a TA (paying cash and telling said TA you don't want to collect QFpoints).

You don’t have to do that just to not earn points. Can book online without a FF number - many people do it as they aren’t members. QF are not going to turn down revenue ticket sales. That really has nothing to do with the OP’s situation which is a suspended QFF account.

 

[andye]

You don’t have to do that just to not earn points. Can book online without a FF number - many people do it as they aren’t members. QF are not going to turn down revenue ticket sales. That really has nothing to do with the OP’s situation which is a suspended QFF account.

Yes any ban would only be from the Qantas FF programme.
I'm pretty sure you would be able to retro-claim once reinstated
Could still fly QF and earn points with BA/AA/CX etc if not confident of reinstatement

 

[kookaburra75]

As it stands, Loyalty Points would be a non cash payment facility under the corporations act. ASIC has however, granted loyalty program operators relief from sections of the act (licensing, disclosure, conduct) where they meet certain characteristics, by declaring them not to be such a facility.
It's also worth noting that the court ruling that exempted loyalty points from FBT took into account the fact that award tickets could only be used for family members.
People pushing for open slather on what they can do, and what they can trade, need to consider the whole legal framework around what they are suggesting. The results may not be in anyones interests.

I agree. That was one of the key points that came up when Ansett went under and some people were pushing for monetary compensation for their 'lost' points. If a frequent flyer point could be considered to have monetary value, then a whole lot of FBT and taxation questions come into play - which wouldn't be good for anyone.

 

[JohnM]

You have to be double Platinum . I.e. when you hit 2400 status credits in your membership year, you can gift gold. I did it once in my many years of membership and Ms FM was the lucky beneficiary. I think it was less than 2400 when I did it.

Yes, before enhancement, it used to be 2100 SC to get Partner Gold. I could manage it quite easily on a DONEx when they were 20 sectors.

 

[33kft]

As it stands, Loyalty Points would be a non cash payment facility under the corporations act. ASIC has however, granted loyalty program operators relief from sections of the act (licensing, disclosure, conduct) where they meet certain characteristics, by declaring them not to be such a facility.
It's also worth noting that the court ruling that exempted loyalty points from FBT took into account the fact that award tickets could only be used for family members.

I think my tax return is complicated enough without having to report on frequent flyer points thank you very much

Thinking about this, it opens up some interesting questions to me. I wonder how supermarket loyalty programs are considered by ASIC/ATO (but far too lazy to look it up to be honest) as it is slightly different to airline programs in that, when redeemed for purchases, it is given a specific monetary value, ie $10 in redemptions for WOW or 20,000 = $10 for Coles. There's also nothing inherent there that would stop the benefit being given to someone else via your card. Seems they are as close as you could possibly get to ASIC's line in the sand to me.

 

[JohnM]

Isn't it interesting to where the OP's post has led.... Who would have thought?

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

So, lets presuppose, if OP gets his QFF account "chopped", QF would not be able to bar him from flying with them, eh?

 

[AustraliaPoochie]

Isn't it interesting to where the OP's post has led.... Who would have thought?

Just a pity that QFFpoints can now be bought and sold and traded so easily.
And QF is just a toothless tiger, all they can do is remove the accounts of offenders but the real culprits, ie, the traders (real culprits) on OzB/ebay/gumtree will still go on making money.

 

[Pushka]

So, lets presuppose, if OP gets his QFF account "chopped", QF would not be able to bar him from flying with them, eh?

Belonging to QFF never been a prerequisite to flying on their planes.

 

[Scott K]

Just a pity that QFFpoints can now be bought and sold and traded so easily.
And QF is just a toothless tiger, all they can do is remove the accounts of offenders but the real culprits, ie, the traders (real culprits) on OzB/ebay/gumtree will still go on making money.

Maybe. When the accounts of these players get shut down the people they sold points to usually find their accounts closed too. The OP may have very well fallen victim to this. It’s hard to say as much of the information from the OP has been vague and somewhat unreliable.

 

[love_the_life]

So, lets presuppose, if OP gets his QFF account "chopped", QF would not be able to bar him from flying with them, eh?

Why on earth would we presuppose that one thing leads to the other?

 

[RichardMEL]

Seems to me the OP has learned a (potentially rather expensive) lesson.

Here's the thing from my point of view. Surely the penny may have dropped when buying from a non official source?

Yes sure,many other programs allow gifting of points and buying of miles(to certain limits) via their official websites and partners (such as CC bonuses or other promotions). The US airlines do this a lot. I get probably 6-8 a year from UA offering me bonuses to buy points etc or allowing gifting of miles to a friend or even charity..

However every program and system is different and just because one program allows something, does not mean they all do. I mean VA has family pooling.. QF does not. I can redeem UA miles for a friend(and have done so).. QF will not allow this.

The whole reason QF brought in the notion of family transfers and award flights for family members.. at least with my understanding.. was to prevent exactly this sort of fraud. They have a different philisophy to the others like the US majors (and even then there's batering of miles that goes on given the caps for officially purchased miles are not too high, eg I think it's 150k/year for UA)... Basically QF (and VA) don't want people reselling their currency for a profit... be it redeeming an award seat for someone and selling it(and thus making a profit) or doing the FT and selling the points, and again, making a profit. That seems pretty reasonable to me. Also very difficult to follow the millions of transactions to find which are legit and which aren't.

I would suspect the OP likely got caught up as collateral of investigations of bigger fish (ie: the sellers) and given the OP admitted to buying > 200k points, that's a significant sum, those points came from somewhere, and passed through the broker who made $$$ on the deal.

I hope the OP can get something back, or some empathy from QF but I wouldn't expect it given it's a pretty big violation in my book. I definitely agree being honest about it is the best policy at this point and I guess see what happens.

 

[RichardMEL]

I am sure QF the airline has no issue who flies on them as long as they get the revenue they expect. QFF is a separate matter. If QFF cancel the account then sure, the OP can still fly with QF or whoever they like. QFF may prevent them opening a new account, but they can always open an AA, or EK account and use that if they wish. The real loss would obviously be to the account holder losing hundreds of thousands of points they feel they have obtained legally (or at the very least have paid money for!).

Obviously QF has no fly lists and people banned for various reasons.. usually security/seafety (or some who get the cops called to the SIN lounge for seat tanties... allegedly ) but I doubt issues with FF acconts would be a reason to put someone on a no fly list.

 

[andye]

Perhaps the OP should contact the seller and ask for a refund if the points are lost....

 

[RoMambai]

those points came from somewhere, and passed through the broker who made $$$ on the deal.

Brokers typically buy points and sell redemptions at huge mark ups. They generally operate under cover of some form of dodgy travel agent shell and transact business that way. Many are based abroad. The margins in buying and selling points for its own sake against risk is too low.

If OP did buy, he would have done so from one or a number of hapless mum and dad accumulaters whom after amassing a modest sum faced the crushing reality of QF's limited supply. No use letting them go to waste.

 

[RichardMEL]

Perhaps the OP should contact the seller and ask for a refund if the points are lost....

Chances are the seller's got their own problems to deal with.. and.. good luck with that!

 

[love_the_life]

Brokers typically buy points and sell redemptions at huge mark ups. They generally operate under cover of some form of dodgy travel agent shell and transact business that way. Many are based abroad. The margins in buying and selling points for its own sake against risk is too low.

If OP did buy, he would have done so from one or a number of hapless mum and dad accumulaters whom after amassing a modest sum faced the crushing reality of QF's limited supply. No use letting them go to waste.

Not sure that you are right about the small 'mum and dad' sellers. My understanding is that it was from a dodgy online source like OzBargain sellers. And it's not a case of 'if the OP bought' they have posted they bought 100 - 200K points (but strangely can't remember how many).

 

[RoMambai]

My understanding is that it was from a dodgy online source like OzBargain hosts.

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Many, if not most, sellers on OzB are one off vendors.

 

[love_the_life]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. Many, if not most, sellers on OzB are one off vendors.

Maybe but you are very kind to the OP.
I'm probably just bitter and twisted and far too cynical.

 

[drron]

Some of the ads I have seen on Ozbargain are the dealers advertising their offer to buy QFF points usually with a minimum of 10000 points-ie from the mums and dads.Then they advertise selling larger amounts for a mark up or sell to people who ask to buy a large amount.