Email from QFF [FF Account suspended]

[BAM1748]

I agree with you 33kft. I just have issues with a monopolist that determines the quantity of supply and of redemptions and also acts as the regulator. I concede QF has a right to do so but if they condone points sales in one case they ought to do it all cases.

Perhaps my reflexive anti-monopoly stance is clouding my perspective. Food for thought if nothing else.

This isn't a monopoly, many airlines have points schemes you can use anyone one of these you choose or none at all.

 

[BAM1748]

I tend to agree. Lifting the prohibition, I contend, wouldn't lead to a free for all. Most people are inclined not to participate. But for the small minority that do, legalising p2p sales would legitimise an already soaring practice. The only folk who would grumble are likely to be the NIMBYs who are worried about how it may affect them (which I think would be negligible) and who seemingly prefer the non-cogniscenti to spend their points on toasters. I'd prefer that they get 1.2 cents back per point than an iPhone at 4 times its value.

QF could always reduce he number of places and items points could be spent on. Bring it back to a focus on flying. This would reduce the value for many but possibly increase the value to those who fly QF.

 

[RoMambai]

While there is activity, I get the impression not as much as there used to be, and that the key players have been stopped.

True. What's also been happening is the transactions have moved to Private Messages as for most folk advertising to sell points would be a nigh frightful experience. I get pinged regularly from novices trying to offload their middling lots to me of generally 50 - 100,000. Many people who have sold before are also now going direct to the established buyers (Tuvz is just one a many handful) and thereby circumventing OzB classifieds entirely.

If I were an average punter who has accumulated 50,000 points or so but can't for whatever reason redeem them, I too would be looking to convert it into a lazy $650 than letting it go to rot. I applaud their entrepreneurial spirit.

 

[33kft]

QF could always reduce he number of places and items points could be spent on. Bring it back to a focus on flying. This would reduce the value for many but possibly increase the value to those who fly QF.

I suspect the downside of this for QFF is that an over reliance on flight redemptions makes it a lot harder down the line to spin QFF off as a separate entity, which is something many loyalty program owners like to keep as a back pocket option to separate the liability from the operator.

 

[Quickstatus]

I suspect the downside of this for QFF is that an over reliance on flight redemptions makes it a lot harder down the line to spin QFF off as a separate entity, which is something many loyalty program owners like to keep as a back pocket option to separate the liability from the operator.

AC tried that and spectacularly failed (notwithstanding the general view that their loyalty program was carp)

 

[RoMambai]

This isn't a monopoly, many airlines have points schemes you can use anyone one of these you choose or none at all.

I am referring to QF as a monopolist in the sense of being the only licenced vendor of QF points. As others have correctly pointed, I accept that this is well within their right to do so as the business owner. But if they are going to gouge customers by selling at hugely marked up rates (hence my BA analogy further up the line), than little wonder a thriving black market will emerge that cleaves closer to the true market value (which is around 1.2cpp as estsblished on OzB) than the price offered by Qantas.

I would rather small time punters get their just value out of selling points on OzB than enriching QF shareholders. But maybe thats just me.

 

[Quickstatus]

It appears that some suspensions occurred only after several family transfers occurred.

I wonder what the trigger is?.
More than 5 family members?

 

[BAM1748]

Sorry my bad. A duopoly.

You many not be aware but it's possible to join OS airlines that are part of Oneworld, Star Alliance or even Sky Team and still get local advantages.

The airline doesn't need to fly to your home city.

 

[RoMambai]

I wonder what the trigger is?.
More than 5 family members?

I suspect timeframes are also important. If it were just numbers I'd have been investigated yonks ago (I have a big family that spans several continents).

 

[RoMambai]

You many not be aware but it's possible to join OS airlines that are part of Oneworld, Star Alliance or even Sky Team and still get local advantages.

The airline doesn't need to fly to your home city.

Thanks BAM1748 and others. I just want to underline that I'm not actually a buyer or seller. Playing within the rules suits me fine. It's more the principles that the OP's case has kicked up that stuck in my craw.

 

[cove]

A polite phone call to Qantas is required.
Tell them you made a mistake if you made it.
See if they will give you a Points Challenge offer as a lifetime disqualification hurts both Qantas and yourself. My niece had to do this due to 18 months account inactivity.
If that is a No Go you can get a family member or others to book your flights.

 

[samh004]

It's interesting seeing how this thread has progressed. I feel it's quite civil considering the issue at hand.

I loved the comparison to drink driving and how it's apples and oranges. I would have likened this more so to a minor offence, whatever it may be. You're not aware of the rules, but you get busted anyway. At the end of the day, the law generally says that not knowing what the law is does not count as a defence. That is true in this case as well.

Best thing you can do is plead guilty and provide mitigating circumstances with the hope they let you off lightly. I'd be suggesting they take all ill-gotten points from me with a promise that now I know what the rules are I wont do it again. I'd wear the loss. It sucks, but providing a solution to them that is favourable to them may help.

Looking forward to the result.

 

[nickfromeastryde]

If I were an average punter who has accumulated 50,000 points or so but can't for whatever reason redeem them, I too would be looking to convert it into a lazy $650 than letting it go to rot. I applaud their entrepreneurial spirit.

As bad as it sounds, if I was going to go down this path, would more than likely just use the points to buy a "toaster". I'm sure with the Qantas store specials you could probably get about the same rate of return on something you want or need and no need to break any of the T&C's

 

[BAM1748]

I am referring to QF as a monopolist in the sense of being the only licenced vendor of QF points. As others have correctly pointed, I accept that this is well within their right to do so as the business owner. But if they are going to gouge customers by selling at hugely marked up rates (hence my BA analogy further up the line), than little wonder a thriving black market will emerge that cleaves closer to the true market value (which is around 1.2cpp as estsblished on OzB) than the price offered by Qantas.

I would rather small time punters get their just value out of selling points on OzB than enriching QF shareholders. But maybe thats just me.

Buy a few QF shares perhaps....small time punters can play plenty of gambling games from the stock market to the Mt Isa Cup. I'd rather small small time punters spent their points on airfares or TV sets. They could even shout a few relatives on the approved list a ticket.

 

[BAM1748]

A polite phone call to Qantas is required.
Tell them you made a mistake if you made it.
See if they will give you a Points Challenge offer as a lifetime disqualification hurts both Qantas and yourself. My niece had to do this due to 18 months account inactivity.
If that is a No Go you can get a family member or others to book your flights.

The OP has done that, about 20 posted in.

 

[Scott K]

I am referring to QF as a monopolist in the sense of being the only licenced vendor of QF points. As others have correctly pointed, I accept that this is well within their right to do so as the business owner. But if they are going to gouge customers by selling at hugely marked up rates (hence my BA analogy further up the line), than little wonder a thriving black market will emerge that cleaves closer to the true market value (which is around 1.2cpp as estsblished on OzB) than the price offered by Qantas.

I would rather small time punters get their just value out of selling points on OzB than enriching QF shareholders. But maybe thats just me.

If points themselves were a product, then maybe. But points are a promotional tool. The moment you make points a salable product you make them a surrogate currency. That's the thing about points. They don't go off and they don't physically exist, but they are there to trade for goods or services. so in essence they are a trade mechanism. If you make it exchangeable for dollars in an open market, - as you do when you allow them to be openly sold, it becomes a surrogate currency. This is everything the airlines don't want and would be a major regulatory problem for them.

I don't get this whole... monopoly thing. I know this sounds repetitive, but it is a promotional tool for the airline. Of course they are going to have absolutely control on their own promotional tool.

 

[love_the_life]

And really, we won’t have any more details on the outcome till QFF finishes the investigation which was going to be a few weeks. OP has rung QF and was told they will have to wait till this is done.

 

[RoMambai]

It's interesting seeing how this thread has progressed. I feel it's quite civil considering the issue at hand.

Nice of you to notice

This forum's civility and genuine helpfulness is what makes it so valuable.

 

[SOPOOR]

So are they family according to the very generous description allowed by Qantas?



If so provide the relevant data and see how you go. If not.. well they've warned you of the potential consequences. One thing to be aware of, just tell the truth and beg for mercy if required. If you lie you're more likely to suffer serious consequences.

After reading that im technically in the wrong when i gave my gf at the time of 4 yrs a flight for a holiday we went together, we werent living together so werent defacto or anything more on that list , 10 yrs ago

 

[opusman]

This is everything the airlines don't want and would be a major regulatory problem for them

Not to mention a major liability on the balance sheet!