Egyptair Flight MS804 Disappeared from Radar [New conclusion]

[Quickstatus]

As the linked article suggests there are microphones (non pilot) within the coughpit that picks up all sorts of sounds not specific to the pilot

 

[BAM1748]

As the linked article suggests there are microphones (non pilot) within the coughpit that picks up all sorts of sounds not specific to the pilot

Time to consider coughpit cameras perhaps.

 

[jb747]

Well there you go, you learn something new every day.

Is there also a "coughpit" (ambient / background) microphone? Or just the headset ones? Do the headset ones stay live even when not worn?

I must admit, that when I first read the comment, I was bemused too, until I realised that the mike that we use for all radio and intercom was the one he meant. There are a couple of ambient mikes.

 

[jb747]

Time to consider coughpit cameras perhaps.

Somewhere to hang my hat.... We've discussed this elsewhere. You'd probably need 5 or 6 to give complete coverage. As all of the switch positions are recorded by the data recorders, most of us would just consider it an unjustified intrusion.

 

[BAM1748]

Somewhere to hang my hat.... We've discussed this elsewhere. You'd probably need 5 or 6 to give complete coverage. As all of the switch positions are recorded by the data recorders, most of us would just consider it an unjustified intrusion.

One camera, helps with putting together the "image" or "story" of what was happening overall, eg pilot slumped over etc.

Taxi's have them, some trains have them......crews complain of big brother - it depends on management/leaders attitude on use as to crews taking it as an intrusion or a back up for crew.

 

[jb747]

As they can't even sort out the worldwide situation with regard to FDRs, CVRs, and QARs, I doubt that any regime we're likely to trust is going to appear. It does not matter what management think...they have no control over foreign authorities.

 

[juddles]

I am starting to feel that I jumped the gun when believing in terrorism. This is particularly shameful to me because I used to work in similar stuff. JB, I think your posts are "on the money". Which should be no surprise. Thank you.

 

[ethernet]

Better - 2nd black box recovered
EgyptAir Flight 804 black box recovered from Mediterranean Sea

I hope they report how long the pingers last after recovery, and how well they performed - past tense from first contact - which distracts from the main event.

I dont fly, but if a fire broke out in the coughpit. would doing a bit of a slip n' dive possibly extinguish the fire, or somehow with a window open, expel smoke? (after extinguisher failed).

 

[JessicaTam]

Better - 2nd black box recovered
EgyptAir Flight 804 black box recovered from Mediterranean Sea

I hope they report how long the pingers last after recovery, and how well they performed - past tense from first contact - which distracts from the main event.

I dont fly, but if a fire broke out in the coughpit. would doing a bit of a slip n' dive possibly extinguish the fire, or somehow with a window open, expel smoke? (after extinguisher failed).

Have a read from about post 134 onwards. It has already been discussed.

 

[jb747]

I dont fly, but if a fire broke out in the coughpit. would doing a bit of a slip n' dive possibly extinguish the fire, or somehow with a window open, expel smoke? (after extinguisher failed).

Thanks for the laugh, but don't give up your day job.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

...or somehow with a window open, expel smoke? (after extinguisher failed).

opening a coughpit window appears (at least for some aircraft) to be an option in the event smoke is severe enough... http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/SMOKE_PROCEDURE.pdf

 

[jb747]

opening a coughpit window appears (at least for some aircraft) to be an option in the event smoke is severe enough... http://www.smartcockpit.com/docs/SMOKE_PROCEDURE.pdf

It is...but you need to depressurise first. Same actually applies to opening a main deck door on a 747. But, like everything, there's much more to it. A 'slip n dive' is very likely what they did...intentionally or otherwise. Loss of control in this scenario is a very real issue. There is no chance whatsoever that it will put the fire out. It will almost certainly be electrical, which means that it can only be put out by securing the affected part of the electrical system, which in turn could have very dramatic effects on both instrumentation, and flight controls. If oxygen becomes involved, then you may as well go back and get a drink.

Quite honestly I pretty well never need to jump to terrorism, 'cos I know that aircraft mostly don't need help. This makes interesting reading....http://avherald.com/h?article=44078aa7/0000

 

[turtlemichael]

Reports (or leaks) appear to be coming from the Egyptian authorities as the investigation gets under way. jb747, to what extent would non-Egyptians be involved in the investigation? EgyptAir crash: Flight MS804 black box 'confirms smoke' - BBC News

 

[jb747]

Reports (or leaks) appear to be coming from the Egyptian authorities as the investigation gets under way. jb747, to what extent would non-Egyptians be involved in the investigation? EgyptAir crash: Flight MS804 black box 'confirms smoke' - BBC News

I expect that the French (as the aircraft came from there, and as the home of Airbus) would be deeply involved. They're also the main source of information about the aircraft and systems, so I doubt that much could be kept from them.

We don't know any more so far. There was a report earlier today, to the effect that the recorder was showing similar messages to those reported via ACARS, but not confirmed.

 

[ethernet]

Thanks JB, my dayjob comment may still get a place.
Given the plane is not fly by wire, its not as if they could pull the master breaker switch.
My comment extends to assuming airbus uses teflon coated wires, making accidental shorts on aircraft unlikely unless they are real old in the tooth - and even then I bet there is heavy governing protection past the bus bars. What could compromise teflon? We believe power went dead at a really high altitude - if the flight control recorder stopped. I hope voice can run on batteries a bit longer. I see they have chosen to suppress the seabed floor map, really inexcusable now the loose body bits have be picked up. Given it looks pretty efficient cleanup, my bet is they have a chunk of the charred burnt side. They could tell us if there are compound traces within a salty table spread or ferrous splatter. That is more likely than an inflight spit goat BBQ catching alight. Assuming the worst, I bet they are going over cargo manifests. Either way, its bad news for the regular flyer if they start removing toilets in 1st.

 

[jb747]

Given the plane is not fly by wire, its not as if they could pull the master breaker switch.

It is FBW. But, you can still shut down both generators. That should kill any electrical short/fire.

We believe power went dead at a really high altitude - if the flight control recorder stopped. I hope voice can run on batteries a bit longer.

The recorders would most probably shut down during the actions to control any MEC fire. I don't know what busses they're on, but they won't be immune to the procedural shutdown. After all, they could be the problem...

 

[BAM1748]

It is FBW. But, you can still shut down both generators. That should kill any electrical short/fire.

Yep, but still may not kill a fire.

Matt

 

[drron]

A french judicial inquiry into the crash has concluded the cause of the crash was sloppy maintenance and the cause was probably an oxygen leak in the coughpit that had been present for at least the 4 previous flights.

Incredibly Frenchair crash investigators had withheld their evidence from the Inquiry fo 18 months as they had promised the Egyptians not to disclose it.

Cause Of Deadly EgyptAir Crash Finally Revealed?

In 2016 an EgyptAir A320 crashed while enroute from Paris to Cairo. The cause of the crash has remained a mystery, but we now know a lot more.

onemileatatime.com

 

[Quickstatus]

I believe the investigation is still continuing. Are the Egyptians are still withholding the CVR and FDR and other pieces of evidence?

 

[Happy Trails]

A 2018 BEA report concluded the crash had been caused by a fire on board the aircraft upon analysis of black box data, but stopped short of establishing a specific reason as to why the fire was ignited.

But a new report, which was sent to a Parisian court last month at the request of French judges - a copy of which has been seen by Italian daily Corriere della Sera - concluded the fire was likely caused by the cigarette of a smoking pilot, which ignited oxygen that had leaked from one of the pilot's oxygen masks.

'Pilot's cigarette sparked blaze on EgyptAir jet that crashed in 2016'

Flight MS804 was bound from Paris's Charles de Gaulle airport to Cairo, but plunged into the sea between Crete and the northern coast of Egypt after disappearing from radars on May 19, 2016.

www.dailymail.co.uk