Earn points on Bank Transfers

[SOPOOR]

It's a premium, top-level credit card you're paying for the privilege of holding. It would be beyond bizarre for it to be cancelled with no notice and no explanation unless something has gone on with its use you're not revealing for whatever reason. It's equally suspicious that you're not very much more upset about it and just looking for possible answers in their T&C's to find an explanation. It sounds like you were half expecting this situation because you know how you've been using it.

I think your experience is unique to you only and does not reflect more widely on the rest of us with similar cards who have perhaps not gamed their system to quite the same extreme as you have. Just surmising with no evidence, but maybe they ran an audit that highlighted the customers who were the least profitable to them. ie. those who were maximising the benefits to an extreme, while at the same time carefully avoiding all costs and charges, and have simply decided to 'off-board' them with extreme prejudice.

I had my amex card cancelled because i topped it into credit and asked for a refund, didnt know it was a no no in the credit card world

Filed a afca claim, got told afca cant do anything, and in their experience, they use the "commerically unviable" reason all the time

 

[N860CR]

I don't know if this would be a good idea. Personally, when I am gaming the system, I always stand below radar. I have personal friends who are not as close to radar as I am, but they are not exactly earning Citi money, so I would not want to rock the boat even when I'm disqualified from the game. Making a complain often brings attention back to the complainant, leading to the complainant scoring an own goal. Example: having their whole relationship checked, and maybe leading to even more disqualifications.

Not a bad point. Would be good to get an answer though as to why they went down this path. Might hold off to see if others end up in the same position. Given there are a few having payalls rejected, I wouldn’t be entirely surprised.

 

[Chicken]

Not a bad point. Would be good to get an answer though as to why they went down this path. Might hold off to see if others end up in the same position. Given there are a few having payalls rejected, I wouldn’t be entirely surprised.

This is entirely me, but I would personally be comfortable to just ring up, ask what happened, and play dumb. If the answer from the first operator is because I am unprofitable, or some clearly BS answer, I would end the call right there, and hope that the operator would take the next incoming call and that's the end of the matter. I would definitely not be chasing for a clear answer. This is just me, checking on things but staying under the radar.

 

[Legoman]

no other usage

We'll never know for sure, but perhaps this is what flagged an unusual use 'not in the spirit of the offer' clause and got you on their radar?
I've done the same as you but I do keep the card ticking over each month with a few token small value incidental purchases from real world shop retailers, just so every statement doesn't look exactly the same each month.

 

[Legoman]

So the fact that my last Payall (this month) is being reversed is also making me a bit worried.

All five of my PayAlls in Nov totalling 70K processed perfectly normally as expected.

 

[Legoman]

I’ll run the AFCA process. The excuse Citi are using is weak, to say the least, but any bank can pull the pin on any customer at any point.

What I find really odd is Citibank are still heavily advertising in a very expensive way on FTA TV for their balance transfer offers to their Simplicity Card. Now why on Earth would you be doing that if you were sold to NAB and a brand with a very limited life in the market? It makes no sense at all to me, and the ads I've seen are brand new and offer-specific. They are not generic recycled ads already bought and paid for from 12 months ago.

 

[Hunter4vr]

We'll never know for sure, but perhaps this is what flagged an unusual use 'not in the spirit of the offer' clause and got you on their radar?
I've done the same as you but I do keep the card ticking over each month with a few token small value incidental purchases from real world shop retailers, just so every statement doesn't look exactly the same each month.

I would say one $20k PayAll with no other spending would definitely be flagged internally. I've split mine into two very random amounts and put all my direct debits onto this card since I'm keeping until 2025 when the PayAll's finish up.

No issues at the moment and had all payments processed as usual in the last couple of days.

 

[ChrisMars]

@N860CR are you able to roughly share the amount of citi points you got out before getting the notification of closure? Was it in one transaction? I am wondering if that triggered a flag for an audit.
I am obviously keen to try to understand where was the red line that we don't want to cross. Multiple cc usage as suggested by Legoman seems like a sensible approach which I am now following.

 

[Legoman]

I find it disturbing that when a poster reports having their account suddenly closed that the mob mentality of this forum is to attack the poster and accuse them of misconduct rather than criticising the bank for a lack of transparency or, at the very least, not jumping to conclusions rapidly. Why side with the bank over a consumer?

Calm down. It is you and only you who are choosing to see an "attack" and a "mob" and "accusations". I suggest you go back with a fresh mind and re-read what I wrote without your unconscious-bias of what you wanted to read into it.

Any possible scare-mongering was coming from the OP. "Ohh, look what happened to me, this is going to happen to you too!"

In response to that, I merely pointed out that this is one and only one person's experience so far and that the (lack of) reaction was inconsistent with the severity of the described action by the bank. That inconsistency then leads to a suspicion that there is something else going on we're not being told that might very well help to explain it.

I am one person. By strict definition, that is not a "mob" - so you're 100% wrong there
There was no "attack" by my understanding of it. No abuse, no accusations, no criticism, so you're wrong there too
I did not draw any conclusions either. In fact I even stated that I had "no evidence" because my very point was that the OP didn't provide enough to make any firm conclusions, so you're wrong there too.

 

[Happy Dude]

We'll never know for sure, but perhaps this is what flagged an unusual use 'not in the spirit of the offer' clause and got you on their radar?
I've done the same as you but I do keep the card ticking over each month with a few token small value incidental purchases from real world shop retailers, just so every statement doesn't look exactly the same each month.

yeah, there must be something that caused them to cancel @N860CR's account that others don't do. I'd expect his usage as reported here is common. I also had no issues with my Nov payalls which I do in 3 tx rather than 1 large one. I also use my card regularly for non Amex payments. I earn a fraction of the points than others report here and have only made a modest points transfer once this year. So unless Citi give @N860CR a specific reason for the closure, we can only speculate why it happened only to him. Obviously we'd all be keen to avoid whatever triggered it.

 

[N860CR]

and that the (lack of) reaction was inconsistent with the severity of the described action by the bank

Ok, I’ll engage. What “reaction” would one expect?

@N860CR are you able to roughly share the amount of citi points you got out before getting the notification of closure? Was it in one transaction? I am wondering if that triggered a flag for an audit.
I am obviously keen to try to understand where was the red line that we don't want to cross. Multiple cc usage as suggested by Legoman seems like a sensible approach which I am now following

It was about 650,000. Drained the account out. Could well have been the trigger. As I said, and as many have alluded to above, something is clearly going on here so I wouldn’t be leaving a large volume of points in the Citi accounts. The T&Cs do allow for them to reverse payall points if they’re “not genuine” transactions.

 

[Legoman]

Ok, I’ll engage. What “reaction” would one expect?

I would have contacted Citibank via live chat to get an indication well before posting about it in a frequent flyer forum, but maybe I'm weird like that in going direct to the source to get an answer before social media

 

[N860CR]

I would have contacted Citibank via live chat to get an indication well before posting about it in a frequent flyer forum, but maybe I'm weird like that in going direct to the source to get an answer before social media

Yep, have done that. And have yet to receive a response as Citi claim “we are not sure, we’ve escalated and a case manager will be in touch”. As a member of this community for some 20 years, I elected to share my experience here given others may well be in the same boat.

 

[anyonebutqantas]

^ member of points discussion forum falsely accuses fellow member for "mob mentality", attacking another poster and accusations of misconduct, then in rebuttal is proved patently wrong and has his cough handed to him. Gets feelings hurt and responds with 'LOL' to make himself feel better.
..

^ member delusionally declares 'victory' after admitting that he has no evidence for his original statements.

I have no need to respond to who openly admits to casting aspersions on others without evidence.
<redacted>

 

[ChrisMars]

I am no admin, might make sense to focus on understanding what s going on at citi, how to minimize risk and stay under the radar. Clearly something was done to trigger citi account closure. My bet is a combination of large point transfer, which essentially incurs an effective loss, against a cc account that lack variability in its usage. I am puzzled at the reason given by the bank so far though, hoping to hear feedback from N860CR as the situation progress.

 

[N860CR]

I am no admin, might make sense to focus on understanding what s going on at citi, how to minimize risk and stay under the radar. Clearly something was done to trigger citi account closure. My bet is a combination of large point transfer, which essentially incurs an effective loss, against a cc account that lack variability in its usage. I am puzzled at the reason given by the bank so far though, hoping to hear feedback from N860CR as the situation progress.

Suspect you’re probably right (and it’s above the pay grade of the Filipino chatbot). I’ll report back if I ever get a response. Given plenty above have posted that payall transactions are declining (in the first month since the end of the freebie period) then I’d hazard a guess that the game has come to an end. No point getting worked up about it, just move on and wait for the next one.

 

[Happy Dude]

@N860CR Only one instance above of a payall being declined. There's only one on OZB too that I can see. The account closures don't seem to be widespread either. Those swallows do not a summer make. I hope not anyway, I like my FFFL premier and I'm not ready to part with it.

 

[N860CR]

@N860CR Only one instance above of a payall being declined. There's only one on OZB too that I can see. The account closures don't seem to be widespread either. Those swallows do not a summer make. I hope not anyway, I like my FFFL premier and I'm not ready to part with it.

May well be, but I wouldn’t be too keen on risking a large volume of points (especially given the T&Cs specifically state they can reverse points earned through payall transactions that they don’t like).

 

[Legoman]

May well be, but I wouldn’t be too keen on risking a large volume of points (especially given the T&Cs specifically state they can reverse points earned through payall transactions that they don’t like).

Just to be nit-picky and very, very specific about this claim, let's see what language exactly is used shall we?

3. We may delay or decide not to process any transaction if we have reasonable grounds or reasonably believe fraudulent behaviour or a potential breach of law.

Looking for the reversal statement… nope, far from being "specific", it's actually not there at all either specifically nor implied.

"Don't like"? Well, we'll be generous and call that your interpretation of suspected fraudulent behaviour shall we? The last condition is breach of law. I don't think anyone would deny them the ability to reject points if the law is being broken.

 

[ChrisMars]

Just to be nit-picky and very, very specific about this claim, let's see what language exactly is used shall we?


Looking for the reversal statement… nope, far from being "specific", it's actually not there at all either specifically nor implied.

"Don't like"? Well, we'll be generous and call that your interpretation of suspected fraudulent behaviour shall we? The last condition is breach of law. I don't think anyone would deny them the ability to reject points if the law is being broken.

That would be the payall t&c righ?. Did you check the separate t&cs for the reward program. I scanned it, nothing outrageous there, but worth a reading anyway. What s your take on section 5.1?