Driving in Europe

[kamchatsky]

Hi all,

I am planning to do RTW and include about 2 - 3 weeks in Europe. I want to visit the following cities and using google maps I have determined the driving time between the following cities:

FRA - PRG: 5 hours
PRG - VIE: 4 hours
VIE - VNC: 6 hours
VNC - FLR: 3 hours
FLR - ROM: 3 hours
ROM - CDG: 13 hours
CDG - FRA: 5 hours

For Rome to Paris it looks like Mrs Edison and myself will be flying, but all other cities it seems almost better to drive since it does not take that long and also it seems it is a pain to catch flights that last for 1 hour, but requires 2 hour checkin time as well as possible delays especially with the LCC airlines.

Can anyone with past experience please advice whether I should be driving between these cities, or using bus/train/planes between these cities? We are planning to travel in April next year so there should be no snow, right?

 

[simongr]

Well depending on how you get from Austria to Italy you might go over the Dolomites and see some snow

We used to live in West Germany and for 4 summers running drove (I was 13 so was not allowed to do the driving myself) to Italy through Switzerland and Austria on a number of occasions. Apart from driving on the other side of the road certainly Austria/Italy would be spectacular to drive around.

You then have the joy of Autobahns driving from FRA - lead foot here I come

If you have the time and inclination and are willing to forgoe the FF points lost it would be a great trip.

Just need to factor in parking costs if you hold onto the car and also you need to do somthing with it whilst in Venice unless you have a James Bond Lotus

 

[MelUser]

i have done some of your trips - one year used trains which was great. if training buy 1st classs tickets as it keeps the riff raff out. one year flew via frankfurt on lh's equivalent of red e deals and security checks were annoying plus being charged excess luggage! verdict: trains most fun and best scenery.

 

[spiggy_topes]

I agree - trains are much better in Europe than here - fast and efficient. Plus you don't have to contend with the sometimes terrifying driving.

Have fun!

 

[vitaminp]

In addition to the parking costs mentioned by simongr, the cost of toll roads will need to be factored in. France is especially heavy on the tolls for most of their main highways. I can not remember the exact amounts, but I remember drinking very very very cheap wine after we failed to fully budget the cost of driving from South-East France to Bayeux in the North West.

I think Italy also imposes some hefty tolls.

 

[futaris]

We did Paris-Chamonix-Milan-Venice-Munich-Rothenburg-Frankfurt last year in April. The car rental wasn't terribly expensive, as it was a German car located in Paris, that needed to get back, so the oneway fee wasn't as much as usual. However, keep in mind cost of tolls, and fuel, especially if you lead foot it on the Autobahn. I think we went through fuel twice as fast in Germany.

 

[Maca44]

You could get an 8 days travel within a two month period with Eurorail First Class, which would cover you for four countries for AUD$679 each. Its called a Select Pass 4 Country Saver is for groups of two or more travelling together. The scenery by train is fantastic, you travel through areas you would not see by car, you can both enjoy the view instead of one driving and you arrive relaxed usually in the centre of the city. It is very relaxing by train.
http://www.eurail.com/eurail_select_pass_4_countries?currency=eur

 

[Arthur Hodgson]

Another thing to consider with car rental in Europe is that the majors, eg Hertz, Avis, etc, don't usually allow you to take their car into Eastern Europe, eg the Czech republic. The contract's small print usually excludes travelling to such countries, so you should check any deal very carefully. You might be able to do it, but I suspect you would need to pay a hefty surcharge.

Also, if renting a car in Europe, make sure that either you fully insure the vehicle for all eventualities or that your travel insurance covers any insurance excesses for car rental. We discovered how important this was when a gang of drunken louts smashed one of our car's windows in Southern France. Not everyone likes tourists, unfortunately.

Taking the train is certainly the safer option, IMHO.

 

[mhh]

Last October I drove extensively through Southern France over 2 weeks without problems but unless you want to roam off the beaten track, I'd agree trains are a better means of point to point travel between cities. The times Google maps might quote can get blown out by roadworks, traffic jams and wrong turns. On the plus side, they drive faster (and more skillfully) on the freeways in Europe than they do here.

If you do rent a car, buy or borrow a satnav. I found it made a huge difference to driving enjoyment. My TomTom One was handy for finding places of interest by foot too. Just don't leave it in the car when you park!

I love to drive but haven't enjoyed driving within large cities in Europe. We rented a car last week in Barcelona and I couldn't wait to return it after getting caught in the one way streets.

 

[Travel Guru]

I would agree in taking the train for the following reasons:

a. the driver actually gets to relax and see something on the way
b. you save on the tolls (which are rather exxy)
c. you save on outrageous one way dropoff fees
d. having driven paris-florence, i can tell you its likely to take longer than 13 hrs

If you want to know what the tolls will cost, visit driving directions, map UK, route planner, road map, Michelin Guides, book hotel online: Viamichelin which will give you approx driving times (take them with a grain of salt) and toll charges.

All in all, for short distances (less than 6 hrs) id happily drive, but anything over i'd use their fantastic rail network.

Check out rail passes prior to departure as they are likely to save you a significant amt of money over purchasing by the sector once there.

Hope it helps

TG

p.s. if you do go down the self drive route, ensure you take a GPS, it's a marraige saver!!

You'll also need an international licence for Italy + a couple of other countries.

 

[kamchatsky]

Thank you for all your replies ...... Looks like we will be catching the train instead. and maybe a short drive on the Autobahn ........

Just wondering is it better to book train tickets at Europe directly? Or buy passes here? Wouldn't be cheaper to get it over there? It seemed passes here are expensive ........ Also does 1st class train have sleepers? Or they are just bigger seats?

Another thing, how comfortable is 1st class train overnight? Would you recommend it? What about coach/bus?

 

[Travel Guru]

Thank you for all your replies ...... Looks like we will be catching the train instead. and maybe a short drive on the Autobahn ........

Just wondering is it better to book train tickets at Europe directly? Or buy passes here? Wouldn't be cheaper to get it over there? It seemed passes here are expensive ........ Also does 1st class train have sleepers? Or they are just bigger seats?

Another thing, how comfortable is 1st class train overnight? Would you recommend it? What about coach/bus?

I would buy a pass here, if you think the pass is expensive, wait and try buying the sectors as you go.
A one hour return trip from country Italy to Venice cost me well over $100 in second class.

I don't know much about which trains have sleepers, i'd recommend contacting someone like Rail Plus, or speaking to a travel agent who can source that information for you.

TG

 

[thegurio]

We went Rome-Venice-Florence-Rome late last year and i didnt think it was that bad...

I think we got the whole way there and back for around $150ish

Once i work out how to upload pics i'll show you the cabins from 1st onwards

 

[tuapekastar]

Thank you for all your replies ...... Looks like we will be catching the train instead. and maybe a short drive on the Autobahn ........

Just wondering is it better to book train tickets at Europe directly? Or buy passes here? Wouldn't be cheaper to get it over there? It seemed passes here are expensive ........ Also does 1st class train have sleepers? Or they are just bigger seats?

Another thing, how comfortable is 1st class train overnight? Would you recommend it? What about coach/bus?

There's a lot of info and links re train travel (esp. Europe) at The Man in Seat Sixty-One that may be useful to you.

 

[Maca44]

Just wondering is it better to book train tickets at Europe directly? Or buy passes here? Wouldn't be cheaper to get it over there? It seemed passes here are expensive

The last time I purchased a Eurail pass was many years ago, but I always thought that it was necessary to purchase them in Australia prior to departure. You might want to check that out.

 

[Travel Guru]

The last time I purchased a Eurail pass was many years ago, but I always thought that it was necessary to purchase them in Australia prior to departure. You might want to check that out.

You are correct Maca, Eurail passes need to be purchased prior to departure and allowing enough time (at least a few days prior) for the agent to get vouchers in.

TG

 

[docjames]

I agree with all the above.

Rail is the way to go (same time, less stress). You could do one leg by car if you're desperate to get the lead foot out of your system, but there's no guarantee the roads will be good enough (ie little traffic) to do any serious speed anyway. Plus all the toll/parking issues people have mentioned.

Booking a pass from Aus will be easier by far.

i've done Munich --> Salzberg --> Dolomites --> Venice --> Innsbruck --> Frankfurt by car and it was easy enough until you get into a big town and have no idea where you're going and your map doesnt help much.

I've also done munich--> Frnakfurt by rail, plus nice--> marseilles --> monaco --> nice by rail and car and rail is far easier / less stressful.


Go the train.

 

[mosanator]

I would buy a pass here, if you think the pass is expensive, wait and try buying the sectors as you go.
A one hour return trip from country Italy to Venice cost me well over $100 in second class.

I don't know much about which trains have sleepers, i'd recommend contacting someone like Rail Plus, or speaking to a travel agent who can source that information for you.

TG

WOW Someone made some nice extra money on that ticket to Venice. 3 of us travelled return to Venice from near Udine (about 1.5 hour trip) for around $30 AUS Each, buying the tickets at the station, because the day wasn't worth losing from our eurorail pass.

If you know when you are travelling and not just wandering around it might pay to have a look at the German Rail (DB) website. They can do advance ticketing for just about all of Europe. You will also be able to see timetables, what stops and whether trains require pre booking, have restaurant car, sleepers etc.

I recently returned from Europe and have used the Eurorail before when I was young and wandering around. And it was great. This time however with family in tow and knowing exactly which days we were travelling, I am questioning the Eurorail pass value, and I believe I may have been able to save money doing advance bookings (with the Terms & Conditions risks). Definitely check before hand.

I too once swore by the purchasing of 1st class Eurorail only, I am also questioning that too now, as the railways in Europe are cost cutting and checking their usage rates. What we found this time was that there are a very limited number of 1st class carriages (1 or 2). And they were full of people who thought travelling 1st would be less crowded, only to find that they were having to share with strangers in compartments. Once upon a time you could have had a compartment to yourself or immediate travel party, that is very rare now, even in off season.

Sleepers are pretty good, but $$$$. And make sure you get a cabin in the middle of the carriage, not over the bogies, or you are going to need some great ear plugs and drugs to assist in getting any sleep. I don't think sleeper travel in Europe is a viable option now for tourist travellers. Its $$$$ and you miss the scenery that you spent all that money (or points) to come and see. Makes perfect sense for Business travellers.

Just my thoughts. I would always travel by train in Europe if possible, have you seen the way Italians drive !!!! (I have Italian heritage by the way, before anyone gets upset)

 

[dromanis]

Whilst I've not driven the specifics you propose, I have just spent a week driving a hire car mainly in rural southern France, and offer the following;

• unless you've driven a lot on "the wrong side" before, hire an automatic (if you can) to reduce your stress
• don't rely entirely on Google maps (for times or route instructions) - carry a good, detailed road map as well
• ensure you have a credit card with chip and PIN activated since many servo's (especially the cheaper supermarket ones) will not now recognise or accept an "old fashioned" Australian credit card without this
• consider how much you want to be "off the beaten track" enjoying some beautiful scenery (and which will require a car) as against enjoying the relaxation of generally efficient , clean and well maintained trains between the major cities.
• be prepared for workers strikes in France which seem to be on the increase and which can throw any schedule out (rented car or train)

Not a simple decision - bon chance.

 

[tgh]

There are some very city centric replies here and I disagree with the spin.

You can't stop a train to check out that cute tree , cow , village .........

Europe is riddled with beautiful little villages and other gems that are mostly unseen by big city tourists ticking off the see before I cark it list.

The Motorways are busy but the byways are mostly sublime .

A GPS is now essential , and last year many car hire companies still did not offer them .. amazing.
They are cheap and light so buy your own.
Learn how to make it work for you before you travel , not in the middle of an airport exit lane.