Downgraded?

[JohnK]

you can't lose money since you have paid for a ticket and anything returned means a net profit. But how you feel about the end result depends on how much "value" you put on flying in your chose (and paid) cabin.

I value cattle class so highly that I will continue travelling cattle class so then I cannot be too disappointed if I am downgraded unless I am left behind.

In some cases the payment can be a significant proportion of the fare paid.

That is what I would have expected.

 

[Reggie]

Were you on paid business class tickets? Or had you upgraded with points/UCs or on an award ticket? The SYD-PER flights generally have a fair number of ODU seats filled, so I would expect that if anyone needs to be downgraded for "operational requirements" they would first reverse the ODUs. But there are also many times when the comfy seats on that route are all sold to fare-paying passengers.

Was there any compensation in the end?

Sorry for delay I have been in the bush with no access. The flights were actuAlly PER-SYD-BNE, BNE-SYD-PER. and they were award flights. I only flew via SYD to get the business class seating. The fees paid were alot higher due to the SYD charges which wouldn't have been paid on a direct service. The 3rd pax had actually paid for a business class seat.

No compensation was offered, I had to write a letter of complaint and was given a refund of points (cant remember how much exactly it was) but it was less than the difference between business and economy. I was really p#ssed off with them, but whats the point arguing, they have the monopoly.

 

[Reggie]

Reggie, It sounds like you can refuse, Is that right? Is there anything you can do about it?

Madmat, yes you can refuse, but the 2 burly guards with guns carrying you away may cause problems when you wish to fly in the future.

Jokes aside, no you cant refuse, but they are supposed to offer you a seat in the same cabin on the next flight or later flights. This wasn't offered. At times there may only be a wait of 2 hours for the next flight on a SYD-PER or MEL-PER, so it may be worth it depending on commitments at the other end.

Hopefully it wont happen again, but if it does I will ask to see the copy of the Qantas terms and conditions which they have to show you on request, and then point out that they should offer seating on other flights, and as a final last ditch efort be rerouted.

Someone may tell me that this rule has now changed, or I have misread it, but I aint taking it lying down again

 

[Dave Noble]

It does say in the T&Cs that are in the eticket email

6. Seating
Qantas does not guarantee you any, or any particular, seat even if your reservation is confirmed. You must accept any seat allotted on the flight even if this involves a downgrade, or wait until the next flight on which a seat is available in the class of service paid for.

Dave

 

[Reggie]

Is any compensation offered for downgrade of FF bookings?
Surely there must be something - refund of points?

Odoherty, In my case no offer of compensation was made. After several letters of complaint, I received a letter appologising for the way the matter was handled and telling me a credit of points would be made. The points were less than the difference between business and economy though, cant remember exactly how many were refunded.

I was also annoyed that I had paid more taxes by flying via SYD than direct from BNE to get the business class seats, then was downgraded to ecomony so I was also effectivley out of pocket and wasted a heap of time, as seats on the direct flight had been available when I booked.

 

[Reggie]

It does say in the T&Cs that are in the eticket email

6. Seating
Qantas does not guarantee you any, or any particular, seat even if your reservation is confirmed. You must accept any seat allotted on the flight even if this involves a downgrade, or wait until the next flight on which a seat is available in the class of service paid for.

Dave

Thanks Dave

Yep things have changed I am sure the "paid for" term was not there, and there was something about being offered a seat on the next flight with availability

 

[NM]

Sorry for delay I have been in the bush with no access. The flights were actuAlly PER-SYD-BNE, BNE-SYD-PER. and they were award flights. I only flew via SYD to get the business class seating. The fees paid were alot higher due to the SYD charges which wouldn't have been paid on a direct service. The 3rd pax had actually paid for a business class seat.

No compensation was offered, I had to write a letter of complaint and was given a refund of points (cant remember how much exactly it was) but it was less than the difference between business and economy. I was really p#ssed off with them, but whats the point arguing, they have the monopoly.

Reggie, I understand your frustration and annoyance at this situation. I would also have been very mad having selected a routing that involved more cost (both monetary and points) than the direct service in order to travel in business class instead of economy.

If you were not satisfied with the result, you can also write another letter outlining your annoyance.

By was of comparing different airline's approach to "compensation", I received an unsolicited email from AA regarding a flight delay from MIA to LAX that caused me to misconnect my LAX-HKG flight. I ended up spending 12 hours at LAX airport instead of at a HKG hotel before my HKG-KUL onward connection. The email stated:

Dear Mr. Mobbs:

Our manager in Miami was concerned and asked us to follow up with you regarding your flight with us on June 10. We can understand how frustrating that trip must have been. We are very sorry for all the difficulties you encountered when flight 283 unexpectedly returned to the airport.

As our personnel indicated at the time, a potential mechanical problem developed not too long after taking off and our captain returned to the airport so that our specialists could look at the problem. While our personnel worked hard to minimize the inconvenience, we know that many of our customers' important plans were disrupted. I am truly sorry.

In appreciation for your patience, we've added 6,000 Customer Service bonus miles to your AAdvantage® account. You should see this mileage adjustment in your account very soon, and you can view this activity via our web site, www.aa.com. I hope this gesture of goodwill helps restore your confidence in us.

Your loyalty is important to us and I would like to assure you that we are committed to getting you to your destination as planned. Sometimes, as on June 10, flights won't operate as planned but our goal is to keep those times to a minimum. I know your next trip with us will go much more smoothly than this one did. We will look forward to welcoming you aboard soon.

I had not complained to AA about the delay or missed connection. The AAgent at the AAdmirals Club in LAX was very helpful in getting me to HKG on a later CX flight and was trying everything she could to get me on the 11:55pm flight (next flight after my scheduled 1:30pm departure), but was only successful in getting me a confirmed seat on the 1:55am departure which was enough to make my scheduled HKG-KUL connection. She called CX and asked them to locate my checked bags and re-tag them to KUL instead of the HKG as originally planned.

So even airlines we like to bag can do the right thing when problems arise and result in passenger inconvenience. I understand that occasionally Qantas will find itself in a position where it cannot carry passengers on the flight and in the cabin intended. But if they are going to tell some passengers they will not be travelling as planned, then they should bring several options to the table (downgrade, later flight, refund etc) along with suitable compensation to cover the inconvenience. In the case of award flights downgraded as you have stated, I would expect the points refund should be at least equal to the difference in class booking or a full points refund for the flight.

 

[Reggie]

Reggie, I understand your frustration and annoyance at this situation. I would also have been very mad having selected a routing that involved more cost (both monetary and points) than the direct service in order to travel in business class instead of economy.

If you were not satisfied with the result, you can also write another letter outlining your annoyance.

So even airlines we like to bag can do the right thing when problems arise and result in passenger inconvenience. I understand that occasionally Qantas will find itself in a position where it cannot carry passengers on the flight and in the cabin intended. But if they are going to tell some passengers they will not be travelling as planned, then they should bring several options to the table (downgrade, later flight, refund etc) along with suitable compensation to cover the inconvenience. In the case of award flights downgraded as you have stated, I would expect the points refund should be at least equal to the difference in class booking or a full points refund for the flight.

I agree NM

The biggest issue was not being prewarned, the boarding pass reader simply rejected us at the gate. Then the way it was handled from there was very wrong. In the end I took what I got and put it down to experience. I dont use award flights very often as the mrs doesn't like flying, but when I do, I am always a bit jittery until the door is closed that I may get the tap on the shoulder. This was 4 years ago when I was PS now I have been WP for several years I hope things would be handled better.

 

[NM]

The biggest issue was not being prewarned, the boarding pass reader simply rejected us at the gate. Then the way it was handled from there was very wrong.

Ahh, this was similar to my BA experience when they change the aircraft and hence had less J seats. BA must have know they had a problem at least 30 mins before boarding. So why didn't they page me in the lounge (they knew I was there because they swipe the BP when you enter the lounge) and offer me some alternatives. I was just needing to get home to BNE and would have been happy to take another routing to get there so could have taken any of the BA or QF flights to SIN/BKK/HKG to connect through to BNE. But instead they chose not to try to sort it out and the first I knew was when the BP was rejected at the gate. They didn't even tell me I had been downgraded, just said "here's you new boarding pass - get on the plane". Of course I knew from the new seat number that something was wrong.

Its poor form to do it in this way. Its like they are trying to avoid the issue and hope you just roll over and accept the change.

 

[Reggie]

But instead they chose not to try to sort it out and the first I knew was when the BP was rejected at the gate. They didn't even tell me I had been downgraded, just said "here's you new boarding pass - get on the plane". Of course I knew from the new seat number that something was wrong.

SNAP,

thats exactly what QF did, handed me new boarding passes and told me to board without saying anything, when I looked at them they were in economy.

With me, I had actually gone up to the QP to desk when we arrived in SYD to ensure my wifr (5" nothing) would be able to see the monitors on the plane and nothing was said about the downgrade then with 10 to 15 minutes to boarding.