Domestic Overbooking in Australia

[chrisb]

On Airways tonight they said that overbooking is Industry standard. I understand this is part of the routine in the US, but who does it in Australia on domestic flights?

I've always had the impression QF don't do it domestically, but I have no evidence for that.

 

[tuppaware]

I guess DJ and QF could prob get away with it, as they just bump the customer to the next flight which is generally only 30 mins later. Or bump QFF's up to business ?

 

[oz_mark]

I have heard that while they qantas may overbook economy, they tend not to overbook the flight as a whole (i.e. they flick people up the front).

 

[dajop]

On Airways tonight they said that overbooking is Industry standard. I understand this is part of the routine in the US, but who does it in Australia on domestic flights?

I've always had the impression QF don't do it domestically, but I have no evidence for that.

I am pretty sure they do, there are anecdotes of people being asked to move flights, although they seem to manage their loads more carefully than many airlines (particularly the US airlines).

Often this will be in the form of an offer to move to an earlier flight, so would go undetected by travelling pax as an overbooking situation. Also around xmas time, it is common to overbook the Y cabin (you often hear of op-ups at this time of the year.

 

[Mal]

I believe Qantas does overbook. With the domestic frequencies on most major routes, it's easy to get away with it.

There is the additional issue of IIROPS, which does cause some Op'ups at times.

 

[samh004]

Perhaps Tiger should consider overbooking less until they have a bigger fleet and more flights per day.

did seem odd that their policy on overbooking was to move the first overbooked passengers onto the first free flight (which was the last flight) instead of just shuffling others around. Sure, it’s more complicated, but surely it’s right.

 

[ejb]

Perhaps Tiger should consider overbooking less until they have a bigger fleet and more flights per day.

did seem odd that their policy on overbooking was to move the first overbooked passengers onto the first free flight (which was the last flight) instead of just shuffling others around. Sure, it’s more complicated, but surely it’s right.

This was my thought also Sam.

If they have bumped someone from flight 1, and flight 2 is full, surely they put pax 1 onto 2 and bump someone from 2 to 3. This seems the fairest way, I know more pax are bumped but why should one pax suffer a very long delay when 2 can have shorter delays.

I also agree that if tiger are going to overbook they should look at their schedule and not impose delays of 6+ hours on people.

As a ULLC I think overbooking is rude as airlines overbook to ensure they don't lose revenue when people on refundable tickets don't show and the seat goes empty with no revenue but if tiger sell all the seats on a plane and no one shows up they still get the revenue as no tickets are refundable.

ejb

 

[Dave Noble]

This was my thought also Sam.

If they have bumped someone from flight 1, and flight 2 is full, surely they put pax 1 onto 2 and bump someone from 2 to 3. This seems the fairest way, I know more pax are bumped but why should one pax suffer a very long delay when 2 can have shorter delays.

If they are providing compensation ( such as $200 voucher given ) they prefer to cause 1 denial of boarding with a long wait rather than several denial of boardings and multiply the compensation. Nothing to do with fairness to passenger but cost to airline

If Australia introduced mandatory compensation as per Europe, maybe they would change their procedures

 

[samh004]

If they are providing compensation ( such as $200 voucher given ) they prefer to cause 1 denial of boarding with a long wait rather than several denial of boardings and multiply the compensation. Nothing to do with fairness to passenger but cost to airline

If Australia introduced mandatory compensation as per Europe, maybe they would change their procedures

I think that couple were just lucky that the Tiger check-in staff in question seemed to be partly human. It did take them a bit of calm arguing before she marched off to see what she could do. If that couple had been like other Tiger passengers and got irate, or just accepted it, I doubt they’d have got that $200 voucher.

Plus, it’s a voucher for an airline that you’ve just had a bad experience with. I’m sure they’ll be eager to use it.

 

[dajop]

As a ULLC I think overbooking is rude as airlines overbook to ensure they don't lose revenue when people on refundable tickets don't show and the seat goes empty with no revenue but if tiger sell all the seats on a plane and no one shows up they still get the revenue as no tickets are refundable.

I think part of the issue with ULLC's like Tiger is "throw away" tickets ($20 one way fares) that people buy a considerable time in advance of travel, and part of the rationale for profitability assumes this will happen, so they overbook. It would be nice if they offered trivial refunds (eg $5-10) for people to cancel prior to travel so they could manage this better.

 

[straitman]

If they have bumped someone from flight 1, and flight 2 is full, surely they put pax 1 onto 2 and bump someone from 2 to 3. This seems the fairest way, I know more pax are bumped but why should one pax suffer a very long delay when 2 can have shorter delays.

This might sound the farest but it is never going to happen :!: They will never mess with changing more bookings than they have a need to do.

I also agree that if tiger are going to overbook they should look at their schedule and not impose delays of 6+ hours on people.

As a ULLC I think overbooking is rude as airlines overbook to ensure they don't lose revenue when people on refundable tickets don't show and the seat goes empty with no revenue but if tiger sell all the seats on a plane and no one shows up they still get the revenue as no tickets are refundable.

ejb

Whether you think it is rude or not that is how it works. The cost and fare base allows for some no shows and that some seats will be sold twice. Some times they get caught out but mostly it works reasonably well.

 

[harvyk]

I think part of the issue with ULLC's like Tiger is "throw away" tickets ($20 one way fares) that people buy a considerable time in advance of travel, and part of the rationale for profitability assumes this will happen, so they overbook. It would be nice if they offered trivial refunds (eg $5-10) for people to cancel prior to travel so they could manage this better.

Why would they bother. It's not like people go to TT for the silver service (well some do, and thus are very disapointed) TT know that they can treat their pax like cough and the pax will continue to return, what alternative do they have? For the majority of pax it's TT or nothing. TT will only change their procedures if they start to see pax numbers falling. But all the time they offer $20, pax will come.

 

[dajop]

Why would they bother. It's not like people go to TT for the silver service (well some do, and thus are very disapointed) TT know that they can treat their pax like cough and the pax will continue to return, what alternative do they have? For the majority of pax it's TT or nothing. TT will only change their procedures if they start to see pax numbers falling. But all the time they offer $20, pax will come.

It's nothing to do with silver service or the passenger - who cares about the passenger?

It's more about the overall revenue maximisation. Say you're selling during a sale 15 fares for $20 a piece. Six months out. Closer to the date it starts filling up and suddently your charging $150 for a seat on that plane .... so you offer you're $20 passengers the chance to cancel with a $10 refund if they're no longer travelling, given that some of them may have treated such a cheap fare as a throw-away. Therefore you get $160 for each of these seats rather than $20. Trouble is you would only want to do this on flights that are full, not every flight as that undermines your whole business model.

I guess it is must simpler though to oversell the plane by 15 seats, and deal with the consequences if everyone turns up.

 

[v8Statesman]

I've always had the impression QF don't do it domestically, but I have no evidence for that.

Have you failed to notice the "stand-by" seating near the information desk directly below the QP in PER:?:

 

[chrisb]

Have you failed to notice the "stand-by" seating near the information desk directly below the QP in PER:?:

Yeah i have, but there are other reasons for that beyond pure profit based overbooking.

My personal opinion is that the involuntary denied boarding compensation should be $5000 cash per person, plus a guarantee seat in the highest class of any carrier that will get you there the fastest

Don't let your drive for profit get in the way of my travel. If i book a seat 9 months in advance and follow all of your rules, you can be nice enough to have a seat for me. Other industries don't get away with selling things that don't exist.

 

[v8Statesman]

Yeah i have, but there are other reasons for that beyond pure profit based overbooking.

My personal opinion is that the involuntary denied boarding compensation should be $5000 cash per person, plus a guarantee seat in the highest class of any carrier that will get you there the fastest

Don't let your drive for profit get in the way of my travel. If i book a seat 9 months in advance and follow all of your rules, you can be nice enough to have a seat for me. Other industries don't get away with selling things that don't exist.

Only $5,000:?::?::?:

 

[chrisb]

Only $5,000:?::?::?:

Hey, i could have gone overboard. The simple message in that cost is "don't do this". It tips the cost/benefit balance back towards the customer. It puts more value on the distress and loss that could potentially be felt by the customer.

Note, i'm not talking about unpredictable Irrops or weather, etc. Just pure profit driven overbooking of an aircraft.

 

[v8Statesman]

Hey, i could have gone overboard. The simple message in that cost is "don't do this". It tips the cost/benefit balance back towards the customer. It puts more value on the distress and loss that could potentially be felt by the customer.

Note, i'm not talking about unpredictable Irrops or weather, etc. Just pure profit driven overbooking of an aircraft.

Should airlines not make a profit?

Stirring the pot now.

 

[dajop]

Have you failed to notice the "stand-by" seating near the information desk directly below the QP in PER:?:

I was under the impression that standby was for pax that want to move to or purchase tickets on flights that are fully booked. As opposed to oversold where the airline has to come to some arrangement to reaccommate passengers once everyone has already checked in. I guess these days though OLCI means there is room for passengers denied boarding, to wait and see if everyone who has done OLCI has turned up.

 

[chrisb]

Should airlines not make a profit?

Stirring the pot now.

Of course they should, but be honest about it. When i buy a seat on the 9.15am flight, i expect to be on it. If you want to sell more seats than you have then sell standby or space available tickets.

It's kinda like booking SYD-LAX J class, showing up and being given Y and a $50 voucher. It really doesn't compensate for it. Sorry, we ran out of seats Mr Statesman, but thanks for helping our profit.