Discussion on Ukraine situation 2022

drron said:
Even Ukraine is profiting from the higher price of Russian gas in Europe.
www.frontpagemag.com

Ukraine Demands Everyone Else Boycott Russia While Making Billions From Russian Gas | Frontpage Mag

“If Europe continues importing gas from Russia, why shouldn’t Ukraine benefit from it?”
www.frontpagemag.com www.frontpagemag.com
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A brilliant piece of Russian propaganda.

The article conflates Russia earning USD 400 million EXTRA per day from higher prices against the around USD 5 m/day that the Ukraine receives from hosting the gas pipeline (and from which it pays for the power to run the pumping stations within the Ukraine.

The price the Ukraine receives has NOT increased.

Do you really think that if the Ukraine unilaterally stopped all flow of gas to Western Europe against the wishes of the Germans, Dutch etc that would improve the strategic situation?

That is the basis for the dis-information in the article. Falsehoods and dis-information.

Ukraine's revenue from the pipeline has not shot up many times over - but their costs of keeping it going have due to the loss of electrical power in some areas. This is the only reason that Russia has not shut down any of the nuclear power plants it took over. Not for some humantarian reason - purely to keep the flow of earnings from their gas pipeline going.

Strange how (that I've not seen) not any expert - military, diplomatic nor politician has mentioned this 'dirty little secret'?

However, as the European public is growing more concerned about the execution of men, women & children & other attrocities - the politicians are being forced to 'talk' not necessarily act...

Coal embargo - takes place from August (if the Ukraine continues to survive?)
Gas embargo - 'reduce use' & try to source from elsewhere
Oil embargo - 'reduce use' & try to source from elsewhere

Meanwhile hundreds of Russian Banks are still part of SWIFT and continuing to pay for French 'arms' shipments 'grandfathered' from pre-Crimea/Eastern Ukraine invasion contracts against the spirit of the EU enbargo. A bit like the exocets shipped after Argentina invaded the Falklands.
 
So is this Ukrainian propagaganda. tens of Thousand Ukrainian civilians being moved to russia. A war crime according to the Geneva convention.
www.reuters.com

Ukrainians deported to Russia from besieged Mariupol dream of home

Mila Panchenko found herself on a station platform in southwest Russia after lack of food and water forced her to hand herself over to pro-Russian forces to escape the besieged Ukrainian city of Mariupol.
www.reuters.com www.reuters.com
 
drron said:
@SCM you should really study the Tactics of Russian troops in the events of 2014. You might realise then why the Ukrainians are fighting for their lives and why the Ukrainian troops in Mariupol won't surrender. For example the battle of Ilovaisk. Some of the Ukrainian troops that tried to retake Ilovaisk were surrounded by hostile forces including Russian forces inside Ukraine. they negotiated a ceasefire which received the approval of Putin. This is what happened,

military-history.fandom.com

Battle of Ilovaisk

The Battle of Ilovaisk started on 7 August 2014, when the Armed Forces of Ukraine and pro-Ukrainian paramilitaries began a series of attempts to capture the city of Ilovaisk from pro-Russian insurgents affiliated with the Donetsk People's Republic (DPR).[4][11] Whilst government forces were able...
military-history.fandom.com military-history.fandom.com
Click to expand...
Post 255 above including the following quoted passage...

After days of being under siege in Ilovaisk, commanders of government forces in the city attempted to negotiate an agreement that would allow them to withdraw from the city.[7][9] Russian president Vladimir Putin said in the early morning on 29 August that a "humanitarian corridor for besieged Ukrainian soldiers" should be established, allowing the trapped soldiers to leave Ilovaisk.[18] Yuri Beryoza, a commander in the Dnipro Battalion, managed to quickly reach an agreement with Russian commanders in Ilovaisk to establish such a corridor.[7] DPR prime minister Alexander Zakharchenko confirmed that an agreement had been made, and also said that Ukrainian forces were required to leave their armoured vehicles and ammunition behind as a condition of the agreement.[27] At 06:00, government forces began to move out of Ilovaisk in a column of sixty vehicles.[7] The first lorry in the column, carrying dead and wounded soldiers, was flying a white flag. The column advanced 10 kilometres (6 1⁄4 mi) along the corridor, about an hour's drive, but was then surrounded by Russian and insurgent troops.[7][18] These troops opened fire on the column with mortars and heavy machine guns. Vehicles exploded, and the column was obliterated.[7] Soldiers attempted to flee, but many were captured by Russian and insurgent forces. One fleeing Ukrainian soldier described the situation as "a real meat grinder".[18] At least 100 soldiers were killed in the ambush, with many more injured or taken prisoner. The Ukrainian government described the events as a "massacre".[8][28] One insurgent commander said he had taken 173 Ukrainian soldiers prisoner near Ilovaisk, in the aftermath of the ambush. He said that he would use them as laborers to rebuild destroyed Donbass cities.[

...is hopefully fresh in Ukraine’s mind as it looks like President Putin might initially blockade the Azovstal plant and/or allow civilians and injured military out in due course.
 
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..and yet the US will not marginalise his girlfriend for fear of what he might do… sheesh...
There is a different view of the world right at the pointy end.. ordinary folk are truly lesser mortals in their eyes.
 
Interesting quote from US Secretary of Defense Austin: “We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine. It has already lost a lot of military capability… we want to see them not have the capability to very quickly reproduce that capability.” reported by BBC

——

Also BBC noting Russia's defence ministry says it will allow civilians trapped in the Azovstal steel plant to evacuate the area.

Russian units would withdraw to a "safe distance" from 12:00 BST, the defence ministry said.

Ukrainian soldiers and civilians have been under siege in the industrial complex for weeks, the last part of Mariupol not under Russian control.

 
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HappyFlyerFamily said:
“We want to see Russia weakened to the degree that it can't do the kinds of things that it has done in invading Ukraine. It has already lost a lot of military capability… we want to see them not have the capability to very quickly reproduce that capability.”
Click to expand...
Nice way to feed the Russian propaganda machine it's favourite diet.
 
Is this for real? Mind boggling stuff, who wouldn't take an anti tank gun when offered one? :)


This pinched from somewhere seems quite appropriate.

IMG_3813.JPG
 
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Noticed an unverified video of UN vehicles heading to Mariupol - hopefully genuine and not a false flag.

Also verified reports of about 20 civilians leaving Azovstal - both sides confirming event.
 

Mariupol evacuation under way - Red Cross​

The International Committee of the Red Cross has confirmed that a process to evacuate civilians from Mariupol is under way.
"The ICRC confirms that a safe passage operation is ongoing, in coordination with the UN and the parties to the conflict," a spokesman said.
"The convoy to evacuate civilians started on 29 April, travelled some 230 kilometres and reached the plant in Mariupol on Saturday morning, local time.
"The ICRC insists on the fact that no details can be shared until the situation allows, as it could seriously jeopardize the safety of the civilians and the convoy. Relevant local authorities are communicating with the civilians about practical details."

- reporting by BBC blog


In other unconfirmed news, another General Andrei Simonov killed in a strike on a Russian command near Izyum. Apparently, its unconfirmed whether General Valery Gerasimov (Chief of the General Staff of the Russian Army), famous for the so-called Gerasimov military doctrine, was also in the area, and thus possibly injured, during the strike.
 
drron said:
I like Gary Kasparov's comment when he heard about the 2 oligarch's deaths -Yes, I believe in coincidence; and I also believe in the KGB."
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Exactly….I remember our tour guide in Russia explaining to us the saying if you were taken in for questioning by a govt agency ‘even the basement had a clear view to Siberia’
 

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