Different availability for re-booking vs new booking?

[TomVexille]

Just another example of why QFF is now worthless to anyone who's not WP or above. Senior management don't care about their customers enough to actually provide a service. The overseas call centres are not trained adequately and do not have the tools to help.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

Just another example of why QFF is now worthless to anyone who's not WP or above. Senior management don't care about their customers enough to actually provide a service. The overseas call centres are not trained adequately and do not have the tools to help.

A big issue is that Qantas does not allow you to make changes to award bookings online. You need to call up all the time. Contrast that with airlines like United or Aer Canada where you can make changes online (sometimes even for free during schedule changes). What I will point out is that even as a Gold elite, I could still contact them and get changes made over the phone. Was there a bit of a wait? Sure. But not terribly bad (certainly under an hour).

 

[MEL_Traveller]

This team is for ticketing issues/delays I believe, not booking issues.

https://www.australianfrequentflyer.com.au/qantas-fix-ticketing-failures/

For sure.

The call centre at one stage managed to add the tag sector, but on an unconfirmed basis. So it was in booking, hence the email to the ticket desk to see if they could ticket.

The leg stayed ‘pending’ for over three months.

Even if it hadn’t been unconfirmed and sitting in the booking I would have tried every avenue to escalate.

 

[Amanad78]

For sure.

The call centre at one stage managed to add the tag sector, but on an unconfirmed basis. So it was in booking, hence the email to the ticket desk to see if they could ticket.

The leg stayed ‘pending’ for over three months.

Even if it hadn’t been unconfirmed and sitting in the booking I would have tried every avenue to escalate.

Did it end up getting ticketed or did it drop off? I have the same situation, tag flight is there but unconfirmed / pending.

Qantas have said:
I have sent the flight to our Yield Management department to review, it is currently on request basis only in your booking.

If they are unable to confirm your preferred flight in the existing booking, you will need to book it as a separate flight booking.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Did it end up getting ticketed or did it drop off? I have the same situation, tag flight is there but unconfirmed / pending.

Qantas have said:
I have sent the flight to our Yield Management department to review, it is currently on request basis only in your booking.

If they are unable to confirm your preferred flight in the existing booking, you will need to book it as a separate flight booking.

Yes! that’s the same message i got too!

It stayed there even while flying the trip! It never got confirmed. I even went to the transfer desk on arrival in SYD (the international to domestic connections centre)… they said it was unconfirmed and couldn’t check me in!

Given the initial request was 3+ months out, and there were obviously award seats on the flight at the time it was ‘requested’, I don’t think the request ever went to yield management or was even considered. Multiple calls to have it chased always expended with ‘it’s with yield management, we cannot contact them, you have to wait’. Same response the day before I left to go o/s.

 

[bam71]

So you can confirm this is a QF systems thing?

Straight from the Qantas Agent’s site. I used to work there in the 2000’s - finished up around 2012. The technology to differentiate between availability “in the PNR” and normal availability came in around 2010ish if i remember correctly. Also, another reason why outsourced agents probably cannot find the same seats as people looking online, is that QF agents had to “emulate” to where the customer was. EG Availability for passengers travelling ex AUS was different to passengers travelling ex USA. If a call came through from the USA, you had to “Emulate” to the USA and access what was available for the ex USA market. If the next call was from Australia, then you’d emulate back to Australia. The Hobart agents have been around since I was there, so they’d know that, but the outsourced ones probably never got the memo, hence the difference of what we can see here, and what they can see there.
Lufthansa and Qatar do the same thing, but Lufthansa takes it a step further. With LH, you need to book in the order of flights. The first outbound flight booked will then alter availability on the next flight you’re looking at. Makes it a tad difficult when you check say Frankfurt to Singapore for seats, but then you start your journey in London to travel London, overnight stop, then Frankfurt to Singapore next day for instance. The GDS changes the Frankfurt Singapore availability and prices, and you haven’t even created a PNR yet!

The dark arts of yield management.

 

[williamsf1]

So you can confirm this is a QF systems thing?

It is an Amadeus thing... Thats the system Qantas uses...

what seats are shown will vary on many rules. Thinks like point of commencement, the full journey, if doing the availability call within a current PNR etc

It is done for commercial reasons

 

[bam71]

It is an Amadeus thing... Thats the system Qantas uses...

what seats are shown will vary on many rules. Thinks like point of commencement, the full journey, if doing the availability call within a current PNR etc

It is done for commercial reasons

Yep. But the thing that does irk me is it means you may have to pay more than someone else on the same flight, booking at the same time. I had a business class commercial Qatar ticket some years ago, Munich via Doha to Singapore return. Had to change the return date. When OUTSIDE the PNR the same booking class/fare was available to change to, so just the change fee would have applied. When INSIDE the PNR, the same fare/booking class was NOT available, so I had the change fee PLUS the fare difference as well. I knew how it worked and just sucked it up, but try explaining that to your average punter.

 

[kangarooflyer88]

It is an Amadeus thing... Thats the system Qantas uses...

Amadeus, Amadeus. C'mon and rock me Amadeus:

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Straight from the Qantas Agent’s site. I used to work there in the 2000’s - finished up around 2012. The technology to differentiate between availability “in the PNR” and normal availability came in around 2010ish if i remember correctly. Also, another reason why outsourced agents probably cannot find the same seats as people looking online, is that QF agents had to “emulate” to where the customer was. EG Availability for passengers travelling ex AUS was different to passengers travelling ex USA. If a call came through from the USA, you had to “Emulate” to the USA and access what was available for the ex USA market. If the next call was from Australia, then you’d emulate back to Australia. The Hobart agents have been around since I was there, so they’d know that, but the outsourced ones probably never got the memo, hence the difference of what we can see here, and what they can see there.
Lufthansa and Qatar do the same thing, but Lufthansa takes it a step further. With LH, you need to book in the order of flights. The first outbound flight booked will then alter availability on the next flight you’re looking at. Makes it a tad difficult when you check say Frankfurt to Singapore for seats, but then you start your journey in London to travel London, overnight stop, then Frankfurt to Singapore next day for instance. The GDS changes the Frankfurt Singapore availability and prices, and you haven’t even created a PNR yet!

The dark arts of yield management.

But this is more than ‘just being able to see’?

If you use the multi city tool it will show MEL-SYD and SYD-LAX, but error out at payment. So it’s a hard block somewhere.

Booking the LAX-SYD then calling to add the MEL-SYD does result in the ‘cannot see’… but if the agent can find the seat when doing a new booking, they know the seat is there.

 

[Amanad78]

Yes! that’s the same message i got too!

It stayed there even while flying the trip! It never got confirmed. I even went to the transfer desk on arrival in SYD (the international to domestic connections centre)… they said it was unconfirmed and couldn’t check me in!

Given the initial request was 3+ months out, and there were obviously award seats on the flight at the time it was ‘requested’, I don’t think the request ever went to yield management or was even considered. Multiple calls to have it chased always expended with ‘it’s with yield management, we cannot contact them, you have to wait’. Same response the day before I left to go o/s.

My flight isn't until Aug, I will keep trying, if only I could get through to Hobart, I feel they would be able to 'fix' it.

The same email they sent also suggested using the multi-trip booking tool next time (which of course I did and got the error at the payment page)

Thankfully QF1 is confirmed and that is all that shows on the itinerary when I request the email.
When I select Manage it takes me to SYD-LHR only, and the seat button takes me straight to QF1




And this is what both legs of QF1 show:

 

[Airbumps]

Straight from the Qantas Agent’s site. I used to work there in the 2000’s - finished up around 2012. The technology to differentiate between availability “in the PNR” and normal availability came in around 2010ish if i remember correctly. Also, another reason why outsourced agents probably cannot find the same seats as people looking online, is that QF agents had to “emulate” to where the customer was. EG Availability for passengers travelling ex AUS was different to passengers travelling ex USA. If a call came through from the USA, you had to “Emulate” to the USA and access what was available for the ex USA market. If the next call was from Australia, then you’d emulate back to Australia. The Hobart agents have been around since I was there, so they’d know that, but the outsourced ones probably never got the memo, hence the difference of what we can see here, and what they can see there.
Lufthansa and Qatar do the same thing, but Lufthansa takes it a step further. With LH, you need to book in the order of flights. The first outbound flight booked will then alter availability on the next flight you’re looking at. Makes it a tad difficult when you check say Frankfurt to Singapore for seats, but then you start your journey in London to travel London, overnight stop, then Frankfurt to Singapore next day for instance. The GDS changes the Frankfurt Singapore availability and prices, and you haven’t even created a PNR yet!

The dark arts of yield management.

Thanks for that! Very informative….particularly the screenshot. I guess the take home for me is that, in this instance at least, it doesn’t appear to be agent incompetence that was the issue.

That said, it irks me that there is different availability. I understand there are probably business reasons behind the decision, but bloody annoying for trip planning. Particularly if you’re trying to lock in a OWA RTW …

Does this restriction apply to other OW airlines or just Qantas (when booking via Qantas)?

 

[MEL_Traveller]

One workaround is to book the domestic tag the day before or after. So if you can fly to SYD the night before, you can usually get it added… and same in the way home. Worked out cheaper for me to go a day earlier and have the tag included on the ticket than to buy a same day connector.

 

[Airbumps]

One workaround is to book the domestic tag the day before or after. So if you can fly to SYD the night before, you can usually get it added… and same in the way home. Worked out cheaper for me to go a day earlier and have the tag included on the ticket than to buy a same day connector.

Good idea...problem is with a 2200h departure from BNE I'd need to keep the transit time to less than 24h to maintain the 108,000 points...and I don't think there's any MEL-BNE flights podt 2200h

 

[DAC1]

Good idea...problem is with a 2200h departure from BNE I'd need to keep the transit time to less than 24h to maintain the 108,000 points...and I don't think there's any MEL-BNE flights podt 2200h

It just needs to arrive after 2200, so depending on your day it looks like QF634 is frequently scheduled to arrive in BNE at 2230 (obviously that is based on current schedules)

 

[kangarooflyer88]

It just needs to arrive after 2200, so depending on your day it looks like QF634 is frequently scheduled to arrive in BNE at 2230 (obviously that is based on current schedules)

If I'm not mistaken there are no flights between Melbourne and Brisbane after 8 AM. An agent even told me!

 

[serfty]

Perhaps I am misreading what the OP posted, but it doesn't seem like they have a OneWorld award, just a simple classic award which to my knowledge has no such restrictions.

A Qantas oneworld award by definition IS a classic award.

Not all Qantas classic awards are oneworld awards.

Check the T&C's.

 

[serfty]

It is an Amadeus thing... Thats the system Qantas uses...

what seats are shown will vary on many rules. Thinks like point of commencement, the full journey, if doing the availability call within a current PNR etc

It is done for commercial reasons

It is probably better described as a facility available with Amadeus that Qantas use as described.

It is done for commercial reasons

This is certainly true.

 

[williamsf1]

Yep. But the thing that does irk me is it means you may have to pay more than someone else on the same flight, booking at the same time. I had a business class commercial Qatar ticket some years ago, Munich via Doha to Singapore return. Had to change the return date. When OUTSIDE the PNR the same booking class/fare was available to change to, so just the change fee would have applied. When INSIDE the PNR, the same fare/booking class was NOT available, so I had the change fee PLUS the fare difference as well. I knew how it worked and just sucked it up, but try explaining that to your average punter.

Same thing happens in many industries.... Take insurance for example ... a renewing current customer will likely pay more than the exact same new customer..

 

[kangarooflyer88]

A Qantas oneworld award by definition IS a classic award.

A Qantas OneWorld award requires you take flights with two OneWorld carriers other than Qantas (i.e. British Airways or AA).

-RooFlyer88