Denied seat recline on long haul

[Mal Ware]

Would be good to get RedRoo's or a cabin crew's take on this which should put the matter to rest

Has nothing to do with policy, it has to do with being respectful of other people. Something the recline brigade just don't want to face up to.

. 'Don't recline because the passenger behind you doesn't like it' is unlikely to be a lawful instruction.

No but don't recline because you are crushing his/her knees would be.

I can only go by the report I read

You mean the report you have referred to about 20 times in this thread? Did you ever post a link to it?

That's where the psych comes in. They need to work with the person to try and associate proper behavioural responses in a given situation.

Did the report say that, or is that just your take on things? A bit more of your armchair expert medical advice?

Also seems like that is the end of the story.

As long as people willingly crush other peoples knees by inconsiderately reclining their seat onto others, there will be no "end of the story".

If you don't like the policy, you are welcome to walk / bus / swim / boat / fly another airline (or different cabin)...

Ah good, just love that old chestnut. I haven't seen that used for nearly 6 days in this forum, all be it on a different topic, I think it was hotels.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

You mean the report you have referred to about 20 times in this thread? Did you ever post a link to it?

Did the report say that, or is that just your take on things? A bit more of your armchair expert medical advice?

the 'report' was not a report per se, just a post on a bulletin board (I think FT) by the passenger. I wish I could find the post.

no need to be a medical expert to know the function of a psychologist/psychiatrist. that's one of the things they do... work through behaviour and try and correct/modify/alleviate symptoms and behaviour if necessary. nor do I need to be a medical expert to know that the poor woman had much greater issues in her life than a seat being reclined if she thinks that was actually a personal attack on her as a human being (being perpetrated by a MAN no less). not sure if it would have been better for her (less threatening) if it had been a woman, the thread didn't quite get that far, although maybe I should have asked

 

[ermen]

Has nothing to do with policy, it has to do with being respectful of other people. Something the recline brigade just don't want to face up to.

Strange. Either I am dense or you are.

Person A wants to recline and thinks Person B is being disrespectful
Person B does not want the recline and thinks Person A is being disrespectful

There is no meeeting of minds. So you get a third party or the service provider to adjudicate via their operating policy. That is the fairest system I would have thought. Its like two children wanting a go on the bike at the same time, they can either beat each other silly or get the parent to lay down some rules...

The third party has no vested interest apart from maximising the greatest good for the greatest number of people. Based on my observations, it seems that most do accept that the pax infront will recline and they themselves will want to recline.

It seems, like everything in life, there is a vocal minority who are not happy with the general status quo. Fair enough. But hey, thats just part of living in a democracy.

 

[zachary.august]

I'm still at a loss as to why you cannot recline if you're reclined into... Again, if you don't like the personal space constraints of Y feel free to pay more for somewhere more comfortable.

 

[The Rok]

I'm at a loss as to how this thread is still going, round and round in circles like a great big friggin roundabout!

 

[docjames]

This thread is getting tiresome.

Perhaps I should recline my seat and go to sleep....

 

[Hvr]

I'm at a loss as to how this thread is still going, round and round in circles like a great big friggin roundabout!

Actually it seems to go to and fro rather than round and round. :mrgreen:

 

[The Rok]

It just seems to go back and forward between the same posters!

 

[Pushka]

A psychologist would counsel you to understand that you cannot change someone else's behaviour but simply your response to it.

On the basis of this thread I have to go by the 'live and let live' phrase and 'this too shall pass' motto. And accept that some will recline, sometimes rudely if they do this abruptly and no thought to the person behind them because the system allows them to do so, while others may prepare to be slightly uncomfortable and not recline, because they don't feel they should recline on the person behind them.

 

[RWJ777]

It just seems to go back and forward between the same posters!

Maybe the seats could recline and rise in sinc.

 

[BadgerBoi]

:shock:So moneied people can just thumb their nose at others that may not have as much to spend as them or don't run businesses where they have truck loads of expenses etc to pay on C/card and wish to waste it on padded seats for 8 hours when others choose to spend it when they get there on accomodation and activities ??? ??

The world is live and let live and a bit of give and take goes a long way to create a lot of happy campers

So people who pay more and fly in J or F shouldn't have greater width and pitch for the extra dollars? I don't see anybody thumbing their nose in this thread.

If someone reclining into you is such a huge problem then paying the extra for a premium seat certainly isn't a waste.

 

[yo yo ma]

Not everyone can afford to fly F or J

So essentially, you get what you pay for.

 

[Mal Ware]

the 'report' was not a report per se, just a post on a bulletin board (I think FT) by the passenger. I wish I could find the post.

Yes shame you cannot find this "report". Safe to say then that the "report" that you keep referring to as thought it had some kind of scientific fact or basis is nothing more than an anonymous persons views, or simply a figment of your imagination.

Although it was fairly obvious from the start, at least now you have admitted that this "report" which you continually refer to that has been the basis of your flawed arguments has no credence, relevance or even proof of its actual existance, I can now safely treat your referal to this report with the contempt it deserves.

Strange. Either I am dense or you are.

Person A wants to recline and thinks Person B is being disrespectful
Person B does not want the recline and thinks Person A is being disrespectful

Person A wants to recline but looks behind him to see an adult male and realizes that if he/she reclines they will put them in some discomfort, so they decline to recline.

Person B does not look behind, and even if they do, they could care less as it is a feature of the aircraft so they recline regardless without any consideration for the person packed into a small area behind them.

Which person are you? A or B......

It appears most here are person B, sadly.

I'm still at a loss as to why you cannot recline if you're reclined into... Again, if you don't like the personal space constraints of Y feel free to pay more for somewhere more comfortable.

So you should pay more not to have your knees crushed? To that I would say, if you want a flying bed, pay more yourself and go in J or F. Or recline on me and pay the price in other ways.

This thread is getting tiresome.

Perhaps I should recline my seat and go to sleep....

Good luck with that. Bump....whoops.

So essentially, you get what you pay for.

What you pay for is a seat. If you want to be horizontal, then you should be in F.

 

[BadgerBoi]

Yes shame you cannot find this "report". Safe to say then that the "report" that you keep referring to as thought it had some kind of scientific fact or basis is nothing more than an anonymous persons views, or simply a figment of your imagination.

Although it was fairly obvious from the start, at least now you have admitted that this "report" which you continually refer to that has been the basis of your flawed arguments has no credence, relevance or even proof of its actual existance, I can now safely treat your referal to this report with the contempt it deserves.


Person A wants to recline but looks behind him to see an adult male and realizes that if he/she reclines they will put them in some discomfort, so they decline to recline.

Person B does not look behind, and even if they do, they could care less as it is a feature of the aircraft so they recline regardless without any consideration for the person packed into a small area behind them.

Which person are you? A or B......

It appears most here are person B, sadly.

So you should pay more not to have your knees crushed? To that I would say, if you want a flying bed, pay more yourself and go in J or F. Or recline on me and pay the price in other ways.

Good luck with that. Bump....whoops.

What you pay for is a seat. If you want to be horizontal, then you should be in F.

Seems to me that all your problems (and there are many of them) could be solved by a simple complaint to a flight attendant - have a quick whine about the passenger in front of you reclining. Good luck with that, and do let us know what the outcome is. :mrgreen:

 

[MEL_Traveller]

mal ware... if there was ambiguity in the term 'report' it is you that has chosen to interpret as being scientific! when I said 'the only thing I can go by is the report I read' it does not mean it is scientific. a person can report an incident on a bulletin board, which they did. and it was a genuine feeling by the woman that she was being bullied simply because a man had decided to recline his seat into her.

there was a fair amount of discussion that her mindset was entirely unreasonable and that the etiquette of reclining was a separate matter to whether the person was using the seat recline as a form of dominance (which she thought).

the fact she thought it was a form of bullying/dominance (whatever) opened up the debate about psychological issues and low self esteem (otherwise why would you think that way).

from that discussion I have made further observations and have come to think that it really is about loss of control and low self esteem. there is no other explanation, because those in control would either accept the limitations of coach travel or so something about it (pay for a bulkhead etc).

all of the other aspects fit nicely into that theory, including resentment of 'monied people' (low self esteem), inability to pay for a better seat (loss of control because you are stuck where you are and can't change it) and bullying (how dare the person in front do something to me in this way).

 

[pippy]

My husband has a bad left shoulder, it keeps him awake at night, and gives him considerable discomfort unless he can stretch it out regularly. When he is flying I always book his seats with either the window to his left or the isle to his left so that he has a little bit of room to move his arm around a bit because keeping it in the same position for prolonged periods of time is painful. I dont select exit row seats or extra legroom seats for him, even if they are available if he has to sit with someone to his left.

However sometimes he is moved up to an extra legroom seat at the airport and ends up with someone to his left, in this case he leaves the plane in a fair bit of discomfort because he holds his arm accross his chest or stomach so as not to anoy the person next to him, he doesnt rest his arm on the armrest , (unless its me in which case he hogs it the whole way but thats fine I know he has a problem and as in any equal partnership his problems are my problems lol).

So how is this any different to knees being crushed behind the seat, my hubby does not make his dicky shouldher the person beside hims problem, why do "some" people with long legs make that the person in fronts problem?

Can I ask you Mal, if you were seated next to my husband and it was obvious he was in need of more elbow room because he was in pain, would you gladly offer him the arm rest and a another few inches of your space so that he could be comfortable, even if it meant you were going to be a bit less uncomfortable. And can I also ask if you didnt give him that extra space or even the common area of the arm rest, would it then be appropriate for him to jostle your seat and make you pay the consequences of his discomfort?


What about the person two rows in front who gets the last chicken meal and you really wanted it.

What about the person who stinks up the onboard toilets before you and gives you an unpleasant experience.

What about the person in front of you at check in who is over the luggage limit and you have to wait while they repack all of their bags.

What about the person 4 rows behind you that has a really anoying cough that never ends.

What about the peron who laughs out loud constantly with his earphones on while watching a funny movie.

I find all of the above really really anoying, but I dont seek to pay them back, demand or even assume that they give a bugger about my anoyances, I chalk it up to the joys of flying, try to put a smile on my face and relax........probably with my seat reclined.

 

[Justinf]

How about this.
You are only responsible for your own actions. Nobody else's.
Do what you want to within the rules and leave others to sort out what they want to do.

 

[asg29e]

What about the person two rows in front who gets the last chicken meal and you really wanted it.

What about the person who stinks up the onboard toilets before you and gives you an unpleasant experience.

What about the person in front of you at check in who is over the luggage limit and you have to wait while they repack all of their bags.

What about the person 4 rows behind you that has a really anoying cough that never ends.

What about the peron who laughs out loud constantly with his earphones on while watching a funny movie.

I find all of the above really really anoying, but I dont seek to pay them back, demand or even assume that they give a bugger about my anoyances, I chalk it up to the joys of flying, try to put a smile on my face and relax........probably with my seat reclined.

Yes.

You forgot a few:
The fat bloke
The armrest hog (although when you are flying it sounds like your husband qualifies)
The smelly armpits
The ones who fix you with a steely gaze the moment you sit down and proceed to tell you their life story
The ones with three carry on bags who hog the overhead lockers

Undoubtedly there are lots more. But in the general scheme of things these are only annoyances, nothing more. Reacting to these serves little purpose.

And the risk of reacting is that you don't really know when the annoyer is actually also a psychopath and may just turn around and punch you in the nose. (It won't be me, I'm feeble and pathetic in that way) OK, so he may get thrown off the aircraft but the one who made a fuss will be the one with blood on his shirt. Apparently this sort of thing also happens with car drivers after minor perceived transgressions...

Best to do as pippy suggests ...relax.

 

[zachary.august]

Yes mal, if you feel that you cannot adequately get comfortable in a Y seat and that your knees would be crushed buy a J or F seat. If you elect to fly in a zoo then prepare to play the animal games.

 

[Mal Ware]

Seems to me that all your problems (and there are many of them) could be solved by a simple complaint to a flight attendant - have a quick whine about the passenger in front of you reclining. Good luck with that, and do let us know what the outcome is. :mrgreen:

No problems here, if you recline on me, then you would have a problem though. And I know what your outcome would be if you did do that. :mrgreen:

from that discussion I have made further observations and have come to think that it really is about loss of control and low self esteem. there is no other explanation

You still refuse to accept that the physical pain and discomfort caused by being reclined on is a factor. All you want to use to support your stance is your home made psychological analysis which could not be further from the truth and are not willing to accept that it could be anything but your psycho-babble. I think you are either in denial, or are trolling, either way you are incorrect.

Thanks for reading my "Report".

My husband has a bad left shoulder, it keeps him awake at night, and gives him considerable discomfort unless he can stretch it out regularly. When he is flying I always book his seats with either the window to his left or the isle to his left so that he has a little bit of room to move his arm around a bit because keeping it in the same position for prolonged periods of time is painful. I dont select exit row seats or extra legroom seats for him, even if they are available if he has to sit with someone to his left.

However sometimes he is moved up to an extra legroom seat at the airport and ends up with someone to his left, in this case he leaves the plane in a fair bit of discomfort because he holds his arm accross his chest or stomach so as not to anoy the person next to him, he doesnt rest his arm on the armrest , (unless its me in which case he hogs it the whole way but thats fine I know he has a problem and as in any equal partnership his problems are my problems lol).

So how is this any different to knees being crushed behind the seat, my hubby does not make his dicky shouldher the person beside hims problem, why do "some" people with long legs make that the person in fronts problem?

Can I ask you Mal, if you were seated next to my husband and it was obvious he was in need of more elbow room because he was in pain, would you gladly offer him the arm rest and a another few inches of your space so that he could be comfortable, even if it meant you were going to be a bit less uncomfortable. And can I also ask if you didnt give him that extra space or even the common area of the arm rest, would it then be appropriate for him to jostle your seat and make you pay the consequences of his discomfort?

Short answer is yes, of course I would.

What about the person two rows in front who gets the last chicken meal and you really wanted it.

Good luck to them.

What about the person who stinks up the onboard toilets before you and gives you an unpleasant experience.

Strange question.

What about the person in front of you at check in who is over the luggage limit and you have to wait while they repack all of their bags.

Platinum line or kiosk.

What about the person 4 rows behind you that has a really anoying cough that never ends.

Headphones and ear plugs.

What about the peron who laughs out loud constantly with his earphones on while watching a funny movie.

Same as above.

I find all of the above really really anoying, but I dont seek to pay them back, demand or even assume that they give a bugger about my anoyances, I chalk it up to the joys of flying, try to put a smile on my face and relax........probably with my seat reclined.

All of your analogies are not really related to reclining though. My turn to ask a question. If you knew that there was a big guy/lady behind you and you were in economy would you recline all of the way back, and if you did and they asked you politely to move your seat forward as you were crushing their knees, would you?

Do what you want to within the rules and leave others to sort out what they want to do.

That's right, or you could be considerate of other people and not use "rules" as a reason not to be.

Yes mal, if you feel that you cannot adequately get comfortable in a Y seat and that your knees would be crushed buy a J or F seat. If you elect to fly in a zoo then prepare to play the animal games.

I can be comfortable in a Y seat, unless a person causes me discomfort. Then I would treat them like an animal in a zoo.