Denied for b1/b2 visa for not having close enough ties to Australia? Thoughts?

[MEL_Traveller]

THanks for everyone for suggest documents that prove for Strong tie to Australia under VWP.

I want to ask, if someone is still an uni student in Australia, he finished his course in July and want to come to the US for visiting for 5 weeks. He is Australian and registered esta. What documents do you guys suggest to bring (Just in case if CBP officers ask)?

Here is my suggestion:
Bank Account statements
Tax Return (TO prove he is Australian resident for tax purpose)
Credit/Debit/Travel Card with its statements
Student ID card and its uni enrollment (or Graduation Confirmation slip that forces you to return for attendance)
Bills (Phone, Health and/or Car Insurance)
Contact of Employer (To prove you must return to Australia in certain date)
Driver License
(Optional) AFP Police Check (To prove you have no criminal record)


Yeah! I believe the prove of tie might also apply to VWP traveler too, not just B1/2 visa.

Anything else would you guys suggest to bring other than Passport, Health insurance, Returning ticket, esta hard copy and Hotel/Tour reservation slip)????? Please

my US trip is coming up in June...

yeah - don't read too much into anything and don't spend too much time worrying!!

All that immigration is concerned about is that you are a genuine tourist, that you have funds to support yourself, and that you are going home.

Those are fairly easy to meet: I'm here for 5 weeks to do [x], here is a credit/debit card to prove I have access to funds, and here is my return ticket to show i am going home.

If there are any concerns at that stage and they want to push further, then a bank statement may be required (just to prove you have cash in the bank to fund your credit card) and they may look for proof you are going to use your return ticket. 'My course starts on [x] date (here's my uni card)' is fine. A letter from your employer is good, but not necessarily something you need to pull out at first instance.

You don't need credit card statements, bills or an AFP police check. In fact bringing multiple supporting documents might look suspicious in itself! (trying too hard to get in). If you are particularly worried, then scan a couple of those bills and save them in cloud or something. If they are going to haul you in for a third degree interview then you can access them if required.

 

[Kenny K. Chan]

yeah - don't read too much into anything and don't spend too much time worrying!!

All that immigration is concerned about is that you are a genuine tourist, that you have funds to support yourself, and that you are going home.

Those are fairly easy to meet: I'm here for 5 weeks to do [x], here is a credit/debit card to prove I have access to funds, and here is my return ticket to show i am going home.

If there are any concerns at that stage and they want to push further, then a bank statement may be required (just to prove you have cash in the bank to fund your credit card) and they may look for proof you are going to use your return ticket. 'My course starts on [x] date (here's my uni card)' is fine. A letter from your employer is good, but not necessarily something you need to pull out at first instance.

You don't need credit card statements, bills or an AFP police check. In fact bringing multiple supporting documents might look suspicious in itself! (trying too hard to get in). If you are particularly worried, then scan a couple of those bills and save them in cloud or something. If they are going to haul you in for a third degree interview then you can access them if required.

Thanks so much MEL_Traveller, you are my lifesaver! I am now stress-free! I feel more confident to visit the US!

 

[jpaust123]

Haha. Hmm yes - technically!

Yes you can enter on B1/2 or VWP, find work, then come back in on an E3 visa.

Couple of issues:

First - you need to gain entry to the US. This is done via "Officer Martinez" and he needs to be convinced that you intend to enter the country only for the purpose of (VWP/B1/B2 etc. ). Ie. NOT looking for work, and that you have every intention of leaving the country.
If he suspects that your REAL reason for entering is to find work - he may deny entry.

Secondly, the E3 program has a limited quota, you must have essentially a Masters Degree (technically need the equivalent of US Bachelors Degree which is higher than Aussie Bachelors Degree), and you must be offered a job which is a close match to your qualifications.

Third - you must come back home to obtain your E3, and then renter the US on the E3. You can't change status whilst there.

In fact, not only does the VWP prevent your right of appeal, but it explicitly forbids your ability to Change Status whilst in the US.

As to the ESTA question, you could try ESTA and if it lets you through you could attempt entry to the US on the VWP, but remember that the Officer at the Port of Entry can still deny your entry.

EDIT:

The key concept here is that of non-immigrant intent.

At the Port of Entry/Consulate, the Officer assumes immigrant intent, and it is your responsibility to prove otherwise. As the E3, B2, VWP visas are all non-immigrant visas, it's up to you to prove that you do not intend to over-stay, immigrate, marry or similar.

Also bear in mind that if an E3 is your goal, it is not explicitly a "Dual-Intent" visa. That means you can not enter as a non-immigrant with the intention of working towards permanent residency. (And this can be a basis of denial of entry/visa).

(There are ways for an E3 to transfer to permanent residency - but we're getting ahead of ourselves).

You've obviously done a fair bit of research already and IMHO did the right thing in applying for a B1/2.

I would try the ESTA approach, and/or seek review from the Consulate.

Good luck!

Hey everyone...great thread, I was wondering if someone had experienced this.

There are some important nuances with the E-3 visa that I wanted to raise. Based on the Australian US embassy website it would appear that you can be on VWP/B1/B2 and look for work. Since I can not post the website link, the specific information is pasted below:
Q. Can I travel to the United States on the Visa Waiver Program to find a job or attend interviews and then apply for the E-3 visa once I return to Australia?
A. Yes, you can travel on the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) if you meet the requirements. If you do not meet the VWP requirements, you may be eligible to travel on the B-1/B-2 Combined Visa for Business or Pleasure. You must leave the United States before applying for your E-3 visa.

I have been unable to find clear confirmation that you are ineligible for VWP/B1/B2 if you are looking for work, so I'll assume that is ok and that the specific issue faced by the OP is the "non-immigrant intent" principle.

I'm in a similar situation to the OP that I wanted to test with users in this forum. Both my partner and myself are Australia citizens. My partner is transferring with their employer on a L-1 visa and, since we are in a de facto relationship, I do not qualify under their visa. I have quit my job in preparation for this relocation and have spent past few weeks looking for employment in the US but think the task would be easier if I was actually there (Indeed first hard experience from other suggests it is impossible to find/secure a job without being on the ground). I have considerable savings (but no property) and have professional reasons to return in 3 years (professional license to practice will expire by that time). Also, my partner will have to return to Australia at the end of their 3 year assignment anyway. To sum it up, there is no intention for us to migrate to the US permanently.

Based on these facts, why would "Officer Martinez" deny me entry if I was on VWP/B1/B2, looking for work in order to apply for E-3 in Australia and I do not overstay my visa term? Practically, how could I get a E-3 if I couldnt rely on going to the US first to find an employer to sponsor me...

Interested to hear people's thoughts on the matter. There are great stories of Australians working in the US on E-3 but the process for someone without a job first is not well explored...

 

[crm911]

Regarding having a girlfriend in the US and getting rejected for a visa...

Should, heaven forbid, the friendship dissolve, I would keep any evidence of that for future entry to the US. Otherwise, this hurdle might come at short notice when a genuine visit opportunity comes up years later. IOW, if the parting is amicable, ask the g/f to send an email or preferably a card/letter that documents the break up.

 

[dfcatch]

Hey everyone...great thread, I was wondering if someone had experienced this.

There are some important nuances with the E-3 visa that I wanted to raise. Based on the Australian US embassy website it would appear that you can be on VWP/B1/B2 and look for work. Since I can not post the website link, the specific information is pasted below:
Q. Can I travel to the United States on the Visa Waiver Program to find a job or attend interviews and then apply for the E-3 visa once I return to Australia?
A. Yes, you can travel on the Visa Waiver Program (VWP) if you meet the requirements. If you do not meet the VWP requirements, you may be eligible to travel on the B-1/B-2 Combined Visa for Business or Pleasure. You must leave the United States before applying for your E-3 visa.

I have been unable to find clear confirmation that you are ineligible for VWP/B1/B2 if you are looking for work, so I'll assume that is ok and that the specific issue faced by the OP is the "non-immigrant intent" principle.

I'm in a similar situation to the OP that I wanted to test with users in this forum. Both my partner and myself are Australia citizens. My partner is transferring with their employer on a L-1 visa and, since we are in a de facto relationship, I do not qualify under their visa. I have quit my job in preparation for this relocation and have spent past few weeks looking for employment in the US but think the task would be easier if I was actually there (Indeed first hard experience from other suggests it is impossible to find/secure a job without being on the ground). I have considerable savings (but no property) and have professional reasons to return in 3 years (professional license to practice will expire by that time). Also, my partner will have to return to Australia at the end of their 3 year assignment anyway. To sum it up, there is no intention for us to migrate to the US permanently.

Based on these facts, why would "Officer Martinez" deny me entry if I was on VWP/B1/B2, looking for work in order to apply for E-3 in Australia and I do not overstay my visa term? Practically, how could I get a E-3 if I couldnt rely on going to the US first to find an employer to sponsor me...

Interested to hear people's thoughts on the matter. There are great stories of Australians working in the US on E-3 but the process for someone without a job first is not well explored...

Short answer IME is - I would imagine you'd be fine

You ARE permitted to enter under VWP/B1/B2 and "look" for work as per the official advice as you quoted.

You are NOT permitted to "actually work" however under the VWP/B1/B2.

If the CBP officer is suspicious - the onus is on you to prove that you do not intend to work under the current entry (VWP etc), and that you intend to leave the US within the allowed timeframe.

The hurdle to jump is not onerous - but people have been caught out when they have not had an understanding of the separation between their VWP entry and their potential future E3 entry.

In many years of entry under different Visas I have had my share of testy questions - but none have proven difficult in the face of straightforward honest answers.


The issue the OP raised was separate. Once flagged with a problem - all other hurdles become higher to pass.

 

[billyfrog]

Facts:

* An Australian Bachelor's Degree is fine. I've never heard of anyone rejected for an Australian university issued Bachelor's Degree.

I keep seeing conflicting information regarding this. I hold a 3 year Australian Bachelor's Degree. Is that sufficient to meet the e3 visa requirements?

Thanks

 

[silvermarch]

Hi all,

First time poster here. This thread has been quite amazing informing me re: requirements of B1/B2.
I wish I saw it before i got denied today!


I was hoping if people here could also shed some opinions on my situation here:


I will be leaving Mid/Late July 2013 and I've booked my tickets (doh!) and have planned the next half the year to be in America to get my thoughts together, experience, volunteer and travel.
I didn't provide any 'strong ties' today and thought a bank slip was enough. Obviously not.

I am a fresh graduate from a masters program so I'm fairly young and don't have much assets tied to my name.
I am self-employed (break even) but also employed at an university as a part time tutor and at a start up company.

So my question is that if I return to the office with the following:

- Bank account details (I will re-present this information with approximately 10k+ in the account?)
- Credit cards (Limit of 10+k)
- Employment confirmation of work from the startup who has hired me as an consultant for 18 months. They have yet to pay me as I commence next month (do you think they find this sustainable)?
- I will try to get confirmation of my employment as an university tutor for start in Feb 2014 from staff of the university (unsure at the moment as these are casual applications are actually confirmed in October this year but I have an informal confirmation).
- I have signed a contract for the purchase of an apartment that's currently in construction and to be built this year - a copy of the contract maybe?
- I will get my parents to write a statutory declaration regarding financial support if need be and state that immediate family is all in Australia.
- A document stating my shares in a public company?
- ATO report from 2011/2012
- Graduation/copy of proof of graduation
- My flight ticket
- A drivers license


I would really really appreciate any input anybody has in regards to my situation. I'm feeling like a nervous wreck at this moment but I know this isn't going to help!


Thank you

 

[Hvr]

Welcome to AFF, silvermarch . You really need to discuss your situation with an immigration lawyer because if you get it wrong now it will have life long repercussions for you regardless of where you travel.

 

[silvermarch]

Hi Hvr, thanks for your suggestion. I don't plan to immigrate to the USA but rather just explore the country for a while - sort of like a mini exchange program. Would you still suggest the immigration lawyer? I am an Australian citizen so I think my travel status should be unaffected for other countries?

Welcome to AFF, . You really need to discuss your situation with an immigration lawyer because if you get it wrong now it will have life long repercussions for you regardless of where you travel.

 

[crm911]

Silvermarch, you can't work in the US with a B1/B2 visa, which I assume you have, given that this thread is about them. I would not even mention volunteering to be safe. You need an immigration lawyer who will probably recomment an E3 visa.

Source: The Consequences of Working on a B1/B2 Visa (NIV)

However, you may not receive payment (except for incidental expenses) from a United States source while on a B1/B2 visa. Working at a job in the United States while on a B1/B2 visa is generally prohibited and is not an appropriate use of this visa class.

 

[Boris spatsky]

On my last trip to the US, entering under a B1 visa for business as usual for me, i was questioned for 15 minutes at the desk by the CBP Officer. He told me that i could not do what i was intending to do on a B1 visa. My first reply was of course 'i always enter under a B1 visa' which really got him grumpy.

In the end it all worked out because i knew the visa rules backwards and proved to him that i was travelling under the correct visa but it sure was concerning at the time. He even looked up the requirements as i was standing there.

Really depends on which CBP officer you get on entry it seems!

 

[Hvr]

Hi Hvr, thanks for your suggestion. I don't plan to immigrate to the USA but rather just explore the country for a while - sort of like a mini exchange program. Would you still suggest the immigration lawyer? I am an Australian citizen so I think my travel status should be unaffected for other countries?

I suggested the immigration lawyer because they know the specifics of the law for entry to various countries. If you are deported from the USA it will affect your travel to other countries because they can see your travel and any comments made by the USA.

Many countries ask if you have ever been deported or refused entry to a country and it may be reason for them to ask you some probing questions.

A little expert advice now will probably save you some grief later in your travels.

 

[pixelate]

Hi all, learning a lot from this thread, I wish I had seen it before I arrived in the US.

I have been in the US travelling for 3 months under the VWP. I'm heading back to Australia in two weeks but I would love to come back for an extended period to check out the West Coast in January, to visit friends etc. I have over $20k in the bank, live at home with my parents (no assets), two credit cards limit no more than $10k, a Bachelor's degree (+ Honours year), 4 years of work experience out of uni.

I left my fulltime job in August after three years there. I would simply like to travel for a few months (with every intention of returning to Australia in three - six months) and not be restricted by the current 90 day VWP, I am likely to get rejected when applying a B1/B2 visa given that I have just been here?

Thanks so much.

 

[Sprucegoose]

On my last trip to the US, entering under a B1 visa for business as usual for me, i was questioned for 15 minutes at the desk by the CBP Officer. He told me that i could not do what i was intending to do on a B1 visa. My first reply was of course 'i always enter under a B1 visa' which really got him grumpy.

In the end it all worked out because i knew the visa rules backwards and proved to him that i was travelling under the correct visa but it sure was concerning at the time. He even looked up the requirements as i was standing there.

Really depends on which CBP officer you get on entry it seems!

I just answer their questions, no chit chat or irrelevant facts with these guys.

 

[dfcatch]

Hi all, learning a lot from this thread, I wish I had seen it before I arrived in the US.

I have been in the US travelling for 3 months under the VWP. I'm heading back to Australia in two weeks but I would love to come back for an extended period to check out the West Coast in January, to visit friends etc. I have over $20k in the bank, live at home with my parents (no assets), two credit cards limit no more than $10k, a Bachelor's degree (+ Honours year), 4 years of work experience out of uni.

I left my fulltime job in August after three years there. I would simply like to travel for a few months (with every intention of returning to Australia in three - six months) and not be restricted by the current 90 day VWP, I am likely to get rejected when applying a B1/B2 visa given that I have just been here?

Thanks so much.

I wouldn't imagine any issues from what you've written here.

From my own experience - none of what you've written should count against you.


Be aware that the visa process takes some time so plan ahead and don't book flights until you have the visa.

Secondly - remember that having the visa is only part of the process.
Ultimately - it is up to the CBP officer to determine your eligibility to enter. He must be satisfied that you do not intend to breach your visa conditions.

As always - YMMV

 

[mushypeas]

I had a much different experience with us consulate in Sydney. I quit my job and decided to live in canada thus requiring b1b2 as you're not eligible for vwp.

Rocked up, number called, asked why I needed visa, mentioned canada and immediately officer became disinterested and said approved and pointed for me to pay at a diff counter.

They kept my passport and I left, the next day I had my passport in the mil and they gave 5 years.

Seems mentioning their friends in the north doesn't trigger alarm bells!

 

[itsreallynotimportant]

So, an update to this.
I went in for another interview. This time with a letter from my employer saying they were happy for me to go and that I would be coming back and working on a project on my return.
I got asked a bunch of questions about my work, about what I wanted to do over there, and if I still had a US girlfriend.
I mentioned that we'd broken up because I couldn't get a visa and go over there and now I just wanted to go over for a holiday. They only let me in because work constituted a close tie.
So my recommendation to anyone is to get a letter from your employer stating when you will be returning to work and what you'll be working on when you get back.
I've also heard that you're betting off just telling them what they want to hear because there is no way they can really cross check it during the interview. Whatever you do, don't say anything that's going to hurt your chances like the fact that your going to visit your girlfriend or that you have a criminal record. They can't check this unless you bring it up. One of my mates just didn't mention it and got a visa first interview.
I know everyone says don't lie during the interview but from what I've heard it seems to be the easiest way to get the visa.
Please note I'm not suggesting that you commit perjury in a US customs office.

 

[pixelate]

I wouldn't imagine any issues from what you've written here.

From my own experience - none of what you've written should count against you.


Be aware that the visa process takes some time so plan ahead and don't book flights until you have the visa.

Secondly - remember that having the visa is only part of the process.
Ultimately - it is up to the CBP officer to determine your eligibility to enter. He must be satisfied that you do not intend to breach your visa conditions.

As always - YMMV

What documents would you suggest I arrive at the consulate with? 2012 financial year group certificate, bank statement, licence? I want to minimise the margin for error as much as possible.

At the Melbourne Consulate could it be as simple as saying, "I was exploring the South for three months this year, I would like to travel across the West Coast for a few months in 2014, visit friends in Boulder and California and come back to my family and full time work a few months after, I just want the option/flexibility of staying a few extra weeks which the visa affords me"

 

[MEL_Traveller]

What documents would you suggest I arrive at the consulate with? 2012 financial year group certificate, bank statement, licence? I want to minimise the margin for error as much as possible.

At the Melbourne Consulate could it be as simple as saying, "I was exploring the South for three months this year, I would like to travel across the West Coast for a few months in 2014, visit friends in Boulder and California and come back to my family and full time work a few months after, I just want the option/flexibility of staying a few extra weeks which the visa affords me"

to be honest... it sounds fishy!

you've already spent three months there, and you are going to the trouble of applying for a visa for a few extra weeks, because another three months isn't long enough to visit friends in boulder and California?

i dunno. maybe a rough itinerary to take in with your documents showing what you plan to do for the three months + three weeks?

i guess it will depend on the person who you talk to

 

[pixelate]

to be honest... it sounds fishy!

you've already spent three months there, and you are going to the trouble of applying for a visa for a few extra weeks, because another three months isn't long enough to visit friends in boulder and California?

i dunno. maybe a rough itinerary to take in with your documents showing what you plan to do for the three months + three weeks?

i guess it will depend on the person who you talk to

I get what you are saying.

The reality is I want to travel for a longer (see the West Coast, East Coast, maybe visit Mexico for a few weeks). I've spent the last three months in the south soaking in the culture, I would like to do the same for the rest of the country but not be limited by the WVP.