Dear Mr Joyce...

[yeldarb8]

Yes, l understand. But, since ASA's only came out a few years ago which earn both points and SC's, how can you get QF LTG on QF Classic Awards?

Huh..? Sorry mate you've lost me. I didn't earn my Lifetime Oneworld status flying on QUNTAS. I don't care about ASA's, SC's, or LTG's for that matter.

 

[Oneworldplus2]

Unlike many on this forum I actually earned my Lifetime Oneworld Sapphire status by flying air miles, not by credit card purchases. I fly. A lot. Frankly I don't care what you do with ****AS (sorry about my Japanese-style pronunciation but I spend a lot of time there). I don't fly the airline anymore, have not done so for years. My frequent flyer miles are all with American. I like this because I can change my award bookings as often as I like and pay no fees what-so-ever. Also, it costs me fewer miles to fly from A to B compared to what you guys charge. Also, when I fly other Oneworld carriers like Cathay, I get access to a much bigger award seat inventory compared to my QFF counter-parts... I have tested this many times. So good luck to you sport. You can fool a lot of the people most of the time but you can't fool some people any of the time.

Huh..? Sorry mate you've lost me. I didn't earn my Lifetime Oneworld status flying on QUNTAS. I don't care about ASA's, SC's, or LTG's for that matter.

Since this thread is about AJ and QF, l thought that you were talking about Qantas Lifetime Gold (aka, QF LTG!).
I'm so sorry for the mix up and bow down to you 'oh great King!

However, you do make some valid points which have been discussed many times over.
Trying to snag J or F seats on QF can be a pain in the backside. This has been talked about many times and is generally a known fact.
Point A - B point redemptions, QF vs AA, is debatable on where you are flying too, but on the face of it, AA is cheaper for long-haul J and F.

As they say, if your not happy with it, change (which you have done). For me, l am waiting for VA to reveal their changes to their FFP before making a switch. In Australia, it's either QF or VA and QF suit me for the moment, so why change??? And not all QF fare buckets earn points in the AA FFP, which also makes it more expensive to qualify for higher tiers in AA's program.

 

[serfty]

One can earn status on AA with their lifetime Gold (1MM) and Platinum (2MM). Currently all AAdvantage miles earned contribute toward the 1MM/2MM levels. There are reasonably reliable reports that soon enough this is to be changed to BIS¹ miles. However, until that happens, status can be earned without flying.

One can only earn status with QFF by actually flying.² SC's can only be earned on eligible flights.


¹ BIS: Butt in Seat - actual miles flown, in this case perhaps RDM's earned from flying.
² Chairman's Lounge excepted, but let's not complicate things.

 

[AnonymousCoward]

Unlike many on this forum I actually earned my Lifetime Oneworld Sapphire status by flying air miles, not by credit card purchases.

This is the QANTAS FF forum. Since you can only early Lifetime Sapphire on QF via BIS miles (CC purchases don't count at all), I think you are mistaken if you think that "many" here achieved status via CC spend.

 

[howiesue]

I am sorry but I cannot disagree more. I have been flying QANTAS since the mid 1980s and cabin service is much the same over that time some good some bad; food is much the same or probably a bit better nowadays on International (some of the best Goan curries to be had I have had with the Hindu meals in economy) just depends where food is loaded; but in a tight spot such as the recent ash cloud they were brilliant at getting me to the rescheduled earlier flight to avoid the airport closure, and staff n planes tedn to tell you what is happening unlike most others.. People compare QANTAS unfavourably with Emirates but I doubt the have flown Emirates Asian regional sectors such as Colombo KL (not a pleasant experience and v old planes). QANTAS has a greater consistency across its network than most. Much better than Cathy on London for example, and evybody has some old planes (try the US for starters).

Patrickk

I, too, have been flying QANTAS since the late eighties mostly international but cannot agree with the comment that cabin service is "much the same". Where are the friendly FA's? The amenity kits that used to be handed out but now have to be begged for if they are available at all? How can it be said that QANTAS' recent change to one bag max at check-in (if you are not in J or a FFG etc) is "exciting" as the blurb put it? And who gets complimentary upgrades these days even when the higher grade cabin is empty and the lower grade cabin chock full? This was put into stark relief for me recently when a colleague who tried to book a flight from Perth to Brisbane in Business was told it was fully booked so he had to travel economy. I was more fortunate as I had booked a couple of weeks earlier. Imagine my surprise when I found at least half the J class cabin was occupied by QANTAS staff returning home after their tour(s) of duty! And some were FA's, not Captains. :?:

Surely so many are commenting about their poor recent experiences with QANTAS because they HAVE seen a deterioration in the product offered. Sure, some others including Cathay have some old planes (got one from HK to LAX recently) and the industry is getting hyper-competitive and margins are getting slimmer. But IMHO margins can be kept alive and healthy not just by slashing costs (and quality of service with it) but also by offering a superior service to that of one's competitors. The cost may well be higher but so will the loadings.

After all this my experience is that this cannot be said for the ground staff, however, including those on the end of the phone. By and large I have found them excellent (with the occasional exception) and are generally helpful and obliging. They at least seem to have empathy for the customer.

We all wait in trepidation of the Aug 24 announcement. But I find it ironic that AJ's comment "At the same time, Qantas would, to summarise his words, cut off some under performing routes" is strangely reminiscent of the comments of Dr Richard Beeching, British Rail's Axe Man of the '60s. Beeching slashed feeder services that were "under performing", overlooking that this would eliminate some of the customers using routes that were profitable, and destroying loyalty od customers and staff at the same time. Britain's railways never recovered. Oh, how history repeats itself.

 

[harvyk]

We all wait in trepidation of the Aug 24 announcement. But I find it ironic that AJ's comment "At the same time, Qantas would, to summarise his words, cut off some under performing routes" is strangely reminiscent of the comments of Dr Richard Beeching, British Rail's Axe Man of the '60s. Beeching slashed feeder services that were "under performing", overlooking that this would eliminate some of the customers using routes that were profitable, and destroying loyalty od customers and staff at the same time. Britain's railways never recovered. Oh, how history repeats itself.

There is the problem with people like Joyce at the helm... He sees everything in terms of $$$ per quarter, but they have trouble in seeing the bigger picture so to speak.

The problem is it's really hard to start isolating exact things which trigger to a customer that they enjoyed the flight \ didn't enjoy the flight and thus make them either chose QF again \ recommend QF to their friends.

A purely money focused CEO doesn't really see things in terms of their contribution to the value of the QF brand, because the "value" of a nice dinner \ IFE \ actual people at check in desks will have different meanings to different people, but those are the things which will make people want or not want to use the airline again and are likely to recommend or not recommend an airline.

I'm not saying that someone like Joyce doesn't have a role to play at QF, as go the other way and get a purely customer focused CEO can be bad for the company (but good for the customer whilst it lasts). What they need is a CEO and board that understands the role of "value" to the customer, and understands it's not purely a monetary value.

 

[Dee Thom]

There is the problem with people like Joyce at the helm... He sees everything in terms of $$$ per quarter, but they have trouble in seeing the bigger picture so to speak.

The problem is it's really hard to start isolating exact things which trigger to a customer that they enjoyed the flight \ didn't enjoy the flight and thus make them either chose QF again \ recommend QF to their friends.

A purely money focused CEO doesn't really see things in terms of their contribution to the value of the QF brand, because the "value" of a nice dinner \ IFE \ actual people at check in desks will have different meanings to different people, but those are the things which will make people want or not want to use the airline again and are likely to recommend or not recommend an airline.

I'm not saying that someone like Joyce doesn't have a role to play at QF, as go the other way and get a purely customer focused CEO can be bad for the company (but good for the customer whilst it lasts). What they need is a CEO and board that understands the role of "value" to the customer, and understands it's not purely a monetary value.

I think you'll find that the QF/QAN board are kicking themselves for letting J.B. go to VA, he is really in his element doing all that Joyce is unable to achieve.
I think Joyce would be better off if he were still at JQ, where he was at his best in the LCC segment.

Cheers Dee

 

[pauly7]

I think you'll find that the QF/QAN board are kicking themselves for letting J.B. go to VA, he is really in his element doing all that Joyce is unable to achieve.
I think Joyce would be better off if he were still at JQ, where he was at his best in the LCC segment.

Cheers Dee

Really? Do you know someone on the board or something?

 

[Vinny]

I'm not saying that someone like Joyce doesn't have a role to play at QF, as go the other way and get a purely customer focused CEO can be bad for the company (but good for the customer whilst it lasts). What they need is a CEO and board that understands the role of "value" to the customer, and understands it's not purely a monetary value.

Exactly. They had someone like that but passed him over for a bean counter. That someone is now really stirring things up in a positive way for Virgin. And I am sure there's more to come. He has a mission to achieve with his new employer and certainly some scores to settle with QF by showing them what he could have achieved for them. Power to him.

 

[codash1099]

I think you'll find that the QF/QAN board are kicking themselves for letting J.B. go to VA, he is really in his element doing all that Joyce is unable to achieve.
I think Joyce would be better off if he were still at JQ, where he was at his best in the LCC segment.

Cheers Dee

While I applaud everything JB is doing, I think it is just a bit early to give him a ticker tape parade. He's spending a lot of money, but the jury is still out on whether it will be successful in the longer term from a business point of view.

In the meantime, more strength to him.

 

[Dee Thom]

Really? Do you know someone on the board or something?

If I told you, I'd then have to kill you !

Read post #209

Cheers Dee

 

[Justchecking]

So what's wrong with qantas can be summed up as.....Lack of investment. Tired old fleet and new aircraft being shipped to the budget love-child. Staff morale. Hosties who've lost the love. Perhaps too many years of trying to make pigs ears into J dinners?No loyalty. Status pax shunted, points redemptions difficult or not worth it. And AJ is fixing this by trying to give qantas the cost base of a 3rd world carrier. Well good luck with that. Personally I think qantas will not succeed in significantly lowering it's cost base by offshoring it's operations to wherever. And even if it does succeed there what have they got? An aging fleet, non-English speaking staff and a customer base now completely alienated by the fact qantas is no longer Australian. Meanwhile the carriers native to that region have new fleets, well trained amd enthusiastic staff and the advantage of being a patriotic choice for their native customer base and a preferred choice for the now utterly disenchanted qantas customer base. Qantas will never be a low fares airline. It's best bet is in living up to its name of being a premium airline that people save up to fly by preference. Something which an accountant fails to grasp.

 

[TonyHancock]

Dear Mr Joyce,

I have a fabulous new way for QF to make lots more money and also, you'll like this, it is close to your heart, take another step closer to becoming a LCC. Two for the price of one!

Make overhead lockers lockable! Then you can charge pax for using them. It would also negate the need to rush to get on the plane first if one's overhead locker is paid for and reserved.

You could charge NB's the highest price, then WP's and then PS's and SG's. That way you could maintain the current strategy of irritating WP's and diluting their benefits whilst promoting SG as the desirable status to be.

You also won't have to worry about implementing priority boarding domestically for your WP's.

No charge for this little suggestion.

Yours Sincerely

TH

 

[connieguy]

Dear Mr Joyce,

I have a fabulous new way for QF to make lots more money and also, you'll like this, it is close to your heart, take another step closer to becoming a LCC. Two for the price of one!

Make overhead lockers lockable! Then you can charge pax for using them. It would also negate the need to rush to get on the plane first if one's overhead locker is paid for and reserved.

You could charge NB's the highest price, then WP's and then PS's and SG's. That way you could maintain the current strategy of irritating WP's and diluting their benefits whilst promoting SG as the desirable status to be.

You also won't have to worry about implementing priority boarding domestically for your WP's.

No charge for this little suggestion.

Yours Sincerely

TH

Very good idea, especially for those of us who are too tall to sit in the sub 31 inch domestic QF seat and need to sit in exit rows, where you can not put anything under the seat. You would think that exit rows would have additional overhead space to cater for the lack of storage under the seat but no they do not.

Gotta admit my next series of flights are with DJ. Why? Because Mr Joyce you are not listening to my very legitimate concerns about benefits you say are there for my domestic travel but are not.

So I have decided to spend my money with DJ for my domestic flights, MH for my Bkk runs, Cx for Bkk to the EU, Air Pacific in J to the states and AA around the states. Don't worry you will still maintain me as a WP but you have lost my faith in where QF is going.

 

[harvyk]

So I have decided to spend my money with DJ for my domestic flights, MH for my Bkk runs, Cx for Bkk to the EU, Air Pacific in J to the states and AA around the states. Don't worry you will still maintain me as a WP but you have lost my faith in where QF is going.

Problem is QF have still got as a customer you as you'll still need to do 4 qualifying flights a year (unless you also change your ff program)

 

[connieguy]

Problem is QF have still got as a customer you as you'll still need to do 4 qualifying flights a year (unless you also change your ff program)

I earned 3,200 QF SCs last year. Doing 4 ~ is not a problem. Easy to pick those up as part of one of my Air Pacific Lax J flights which is really just a bit longer Nan status run. Less than 3 months into my current year and I'm already at 610 SCs with 8 ~ so I'm OK through end April 2013. Should still retain PG this year, so SWMBO will be happy!

So yes I do need to fly 4 sectors on QF metal. Don't get me wrong. I'm not a QF hater. I have flown on this airline for a LOT of years. Why? Because when I walk into the aircraft, at any airport on the planet, I know I'm home. Look AJ may be right and he may be taking QF down the right pathway. Only time will tell. Just I don't like the pathway that I see for QF and the total arrogance senior QF management shows for such a small and easily fixed problem (lack of priority boarding). That they will not fix this festering sore in their side, makes we wonder what other festering sores they are also ignoring and maybe at their peril.

I do really feel for the QF staff, who were once part of a truly great airline. They must be wondering where AJ is taking them and how much more of their once great professionalism they must shed to fit into the new AJ mold.

 

[LiamR]

Don't get me wrong. I'm not a QF hater. I have flown on this airline for a LOT of years. Why? Because when I walk into the aircraft, at any airport on the planet, I know I'm home. Look AJ may be right and he may be taking QF down the right pathway. Only time will tell. Just I don't like the pathway that I see for QF and the total arrogance senior QF management shows for such a small and easily fixed problem (lack of priority boarding). That they will not fix this festering sore in their side, makes we wonder what other festering sores they are also ignoring and maybe at their peril.

I do really feel for the QF staff, who were once part of a truly great airline. They must be wondering where AJ is taking them and how much more of their once great professionalism they must shed to fit into the new AJ mold.

I totally agree with you here gowatson, it's really sad seeing the airline slowly and slowly becoming less. I still feel something special about the Red Roo, but every time I hear management make another cutback, I love it just a little bit less.

Unfortunately, it seems worldwide the aviation industry is becoming like this, flying isn't the magical experience it once was. LCC's have forced even our most premium airlines to make cutbacks to still be relevant. Sad really.

Qantas may well find a solution and adapt to what Aviation will be in the next 20 years. Everybody will argue what they have done right and wrong, some airlines will do a better job, some will be much worse. Some won't like it, but, unfortunately, you have to change.

Trying to hang onto the past is only going to make things worse.

Liam.

 

[medhead]

I am sorry but I cannot disagree more. I have been flying QANTAS since the mid 1980s and cabin service is much the same over that time some good some bad; food is much the same or probably a bit better nowadays on International (some of the best Goan curries to be had I have had with the Hindu meals in economy) just depends where food is loaded; but in a tight spot such as the recent ash cloud they were brilliant at getting me to the rescheduled earlier flight to avoid the airport closure, and staff n planes tedn to tell you what is happening unlike most others.. People compare QANTAS unfavourably with Emirates but I doubt the have flown Emirates Asian regional sectors such as Colombo KL (not a pleasant experience and v old planes). QANTAS has a greater consistency across its network than most. Much better than Cathy on London for example, and evybody has some old planes (try the US for starters).

Patrickk

Well I'm sorry when I compare the wonderful hot breakfast I had flying ROK-BNE in 1994 with the swill that they serve me now (beetroot chips anyone?), I cannot disagree more.

As for the ash cloud fiasco. I had NO contact from qantas at all. I had to ring them, sure the call center staff were brilliant. But there was still not a single SMS and ADL QP staff flat out refused to rebook a flight.

 

[Moopere]

I do really feel for the QF staff, who were once part of a truly great airline. They must be wondering where AJ is taking them and how much more of their once great professionalism they must shed to fit into the new AJ mold.

Not going to try and be an apologist for AJ, but leading the troops through difficult change is not easy.

If even half of the murmur on this can be believed then QF's cost base, re: wages (and probably taxes) is just too high. We can lament this until the cows come home, but it simply can't be ignored at the business level. If QF was simply gouging the hell out of everyone you'd see this in profit statements and dividends to shareholders, theres almost certainly nothing 'shonky' going on whereby ticket pricing is high, wages and support costs are low and QF management and ownership is simply laughing their cough off on the way to the bank.

What we appear to be doing is classic australian whinging. We complain long and loud about the uncompetitive pricing structure, particularly domestic, but plenty of complaining about international as well, yet, at the same time, by and large, there is a lot of support for the high wage/cost base of the group too. I live and work in Australia, I do understand the ambivalence of this situation. Everyone wants to be paid a fair working wage, at the same time we all want cheaper goods and services. Unfortunately, we live in a country who's standard of living is really quite high. We can argue if its getting better or worse, but right now, in comparison to a lot of other places, and certainly in comparison to many of our neighbors, its high.

The only way through the mess would be to nationalise the airline in my opinion (and I'm not generally in favour of this type of move). Essentially run at a loss, propped up by taxpayers. In this way you can provide for employee certainty and wages and still keep ticketing more or less competitive. The alternative, to ask Aussies to pay significantly more for their tickets in order to support an 'Australian' airline and Australian jobs whilst sounding nice is simply a receipe for distaster as we won't, on the whole, accept this idea.

 

[connieguy]

Not going to try and be an apologist for AJ, but leading the troops through difficult change is not easy.

If even half of the murmur on this can be believed then QF's cost base, re: wages (and probably taxes) is just too high. We can lament this until the cows come home, but it simply can't be ignored at the business level. If QF was simply gouging the hell out of everyone you'd see this in profit statements and dividends to shareholders, theres almost certainly nothing 'shonky' going on whereby ticket pricing is high, wages and support costs are low and QF management and ownership is simply laughing their cough off on the way to the bank.

What we appear to be doing is classic australian whinging. We complain long and loud about the uncompetitive pricing structure, particularly domestic, but plenty of complaining about international as well, yet, at the same time, by and large, there is a lot of support for the high wage/cost base of the group too. I live and work in Australia, I do understand the ambivalence of this situation. Everyone wants to be paid a fair working wage, at the same time we all want cheaper goods and services. Unfortunately, we live in a country who's standard of living is really quite high. We can argue if its getting better or worse, but right now, in comparison to a lot of other places, and certainly in comparison to many of our neighbors, its high.

The only way through the mess would be to nationalise the airline in my opinion (and I'm not generally in favour of this type of move). Essentially run at a loss, propped up by taxpayers. In this way you can provide for employee certainty and wages and still keep ticketing more or less competitive. The alternative, to ask Aussies to pay significantly more for their tickets in order to support an 'Australian' airline and Australian jobs whilst sounding nice is simply a receipe for distaster as we won't, on the whole, accept this idea.

I suggest we all do understand the situation as I'm sure most of us fight these same pressures in our businesses. But I do suggest more and more long time QF customers will vote with their wallets (even with heavy hearts) and move some portion of their flying to other carriers while still maintaining QF status for lounge access.

DJ's recent lounge access change of allowing their Golds anytime access, even to the extent of no boarding pass at all, was the last bit I needed to join their corp program. I do wish Qantas all the best with making the international division profitable.