Current Union Activity - Tide of support turned against them?

[browski]

Qantas resume negotiations with engineers

Interesting - this whole notion that stopping doing things is 'unsafe' is a furfy. The reliablility of aircraft these days are so good that they don't need to be met at every flight. They can be checked at nights easily.

No other airline in the world needs all these engineers to do that same job - they have all moved with the times. Does that mean they are all unsafe?

Me thinks they are getting nowhere in the negotiations if that is thier attitude.

Well you'd think the Unions will win the debate on this one.
When Governments use the catch-all reason for justifying some dubious activity, they trot out the phrase "National Security'.........and everyone stops questioning their actions.
So with Unions trotting out the phrase "Passenger Safety" to justify their actions, you'd expect it to be an impossible argument for Qantas Mgt to overcome.

 

[markis10]

Interesting - this whole notion that stopping doing things is 'unsafe' is a furfy. The reliablility of aircraft these days are so good that they don't need to be met at every flight. They can be checked at nights easily. No other airline in the world needs all these engineers to do that same job - they have all moved with the times. Does that mean they are all unsafe? Me thinks they are getting nowhere in the negotiations if that is thier attitude.

Your assertion that aircraft are more reliable these days is not based on any facts I am aware of, in fact one could say modern aircraft have more that can go wrong. The notion that overnight checks will catch everything is also ludicrous, birds dont wait to the last flight of the day to strike, nor do mechanical faults or even aircraft re-fuellers leaving doors/fuel flaps open. A simple check of the weekly ATSB reports will often show numerous pre-flight inspection incidents caught by engineers, as pointed out by CASA when DJ were looking at a LAME free apron a few years back!

 

[medhead]

Come on Markis10, we don't maintain our cars the same way we did 20 years ago, with oil and water checks. It the same with aircraft they don't need all those old fashioned checks..

 

[markis10]

Come on Markis10, we don't maintain our cars the same way we did 20 years ago, with oil and water checks. It the same with aircraft they don't need all those old fashioned checks..

Indeed, in the same time frame look how much the breakdown business of the various auto clubs has grown !

 

[medhead]

Indeed, in the same time frame look how much the breakdown business of the various auto clubs has grown !

Another interesting fact that someone needs to pass on to Alan.

 

[straitman]

Qantas resume negotiations with engineers

Interesting - this whole notion that stopping doing things is 'unsafe' is a furfy. The reliablility of aircraft these days are so good that they don't need to be met at every flight. They can be checked at nights easily.

Anyone who believes this is in La la land :!:

No other airline in the world needs all these engineers to do that same job - they have all moved with the times. Does that mean they are all unsafe?

There is certainly room for compromise and a whole bunch of middle ground :!:

 

[ethernet]

The post was originally about support, and the amazing thing was the number of ignorant people for/against with SFA knowledge of facts or intent - personal beliefs and the heart good enough.

AJ had Intent. 80 million divided by number of QF employees may have gone a fair way of calming the stormy sea.
Instead of cake, he did a BP and dumped a s..load of oil. You have to ask how malevolent and determined that intent is, and what has been held back - he has a good secrecy thing going - unless you are ASX.
I would say severe, and backed with legal opinion. I'd say he burnt the life boats and is in a corner, and like Murdoch, sees a change of a pesky law - like (Partial repeal of S of QF Act) adding value. Don't squabble, set up new shops on new terms, add a little emergency to lead the pollies in the right direction.

Unilaterally giving up bilateral flying rights, prime 'slots' , or shifting to a subsidiary is probably a little detail
that may get picked up.

OK, Team Unity Vs Team Disjointed. AJ is disjointing, while US Airlines are merging .. interesting..
Big = maximal efficiency, assuming on the ball management.

QF's strength is if a plane breaks down, or staff don't turn up, you can call in extra resources. The opposite of small networks like Tiger Airways who don't take responsibility for intra company connections. CF the QF safety blanket, air miles, and lounges and reputation is their trump card.

We will see what happens to the tide when Joe Blow hears about the revision of the sale of QF Act. In this heated election climate, every new 'initiative' is an electoral liability, and timing is everything.

 

[rechoboam]

Indeed, in the same time frame look how much the breakdown business of the various auto clubs has grown !

Do you have figures? I seem to remember my parents calling the RACV again and again with reasonably new cars. I haven't needed to call assistance for ten years, including when I drove a $20k VW hatch.
I assume many of the calls now are because so many people can't change a tire, and don't understand how to check oil levels. But I'm speculating.

 

[Moopere]

The post was originally about support, and the amazing thing was the number of ignorant people for/against with SFA knowledge of facts or intent - personal beliefs and the heart good enough.

Honestly, how can one, straight faced, say the above then let this out of the sluice gate?

AJ had Intent. 80 million divided by number of QF employees may have gone a fair way of calming the stormy sea.
Instead of cake, he did a BP and dumped a s..load of oil. You have to ask how malevolent and determined that intent is, and what has been held back - he has a good secrecy thing going - unless you are ASX.

 

[amaroo]

OK, Team Unity Vs Team Disjointed. AJ is disjointing, while US Airlines are merging .. interesting..

IIRC, one of AJ's first gigs was trying to get a merge going with BA - I think it failed due to disagreement on value. But I also remember the usual suspects were lining up to knock it on the head - Government quoting the Qantas Sale Act, unions quoting job security.

What company would want to merge with QF whilst it's got it's wings chained to the Qantas Sale Act?

Anyway, with the amendments that Senator Xenophobia wants to make to the Qantas Sale Act - it will soon be dead & buried.

 

[ethernet]

Merge with BA. Now that was a sinker of an idea - all those redundancy payments and deemed pensions, coupled with RyanAir, Zero value. IMHO BA in worse shape needing bigger reforms, while QF off to a good start with JQ up and running.

Now we have Engineer bashing going on. I thought they supervised fitters and mechanics, and whatever title
blocked toilet fixer comes under. We have seen overseas engineers and certifiers approve work faster than possible, however tempting tick a box seems. With good management, Engineers can work hard too, and with a backlog, should not be too much of an issue. Sure you can de-skill them so only some can do tricky stuff, but as I understand, there is demand for good ones, and overseas tricky stuff is not that discounted anyway.

Which leaves technical, operational excellence, and staff timing the fixable variables, overseas meal and accom allowances, and perhaps matching 'allowed hours' matching overseas conditions - home regulation change, stopping waste. Pay em a bonus based on what they can save. Unions have to acknowledge sandpit and chapter 14ish airlines, and work the numbers. If QF is not willing to show differentials for each route, win win wont be possible. Don't see them ranting on about MAC airport charges, raking off lots for no risk.

 

[browski]

Anyway, with the amendments that Senator Xenophobia wants to make to the Qantas Sale Act - it will soon be dead & buried.

Yes, it seems that AJ has won the battle but possibly lost the war. You can only use the element of surprise once and he went a year too early. The current federal government will run for at least another 2 years. Maybe the libs persuaded him into believing that they would be in power within 6 months? Big miscalculation there; they now have to deal with an annoyed (and emboldened) federal government including very influential independent/green senators (and MPs).

I suspect Hartigan from News Ltd, also gambled too heavily on regime change and lost. The Govt media enquiry, and the unsuccessful tender for the Government's Australia Overseas network shows the Govt can throw a few punches of their own. If you continually kick an injured bear in the head, you'd best make sure you kill it.

Centrebet's odds on Joyce being out before New Year are firming. If AJ can get the share price to $2 by Jan 1 then he may be saved. Can he do it?
How many days before Arbitration?

 

[markis10]

Centrebet's odds on Joyce being out before New Year are firming. If AJ can get the share price to $2 by Jan 1 then he may be saved. Can he do it?
How many days before Arbitration?

Good luck with the share price!

 

[amaroo]

Merge with BA. Now that was a sinker of an idea

There are a few out there that think differently - IB and very soon BMI :!:

 

[drron]

Good luck with the share price!

Of course it all depends on the time you select with any graph.Do It for the last 5 years and a different story emerges-
VBA-High-$2.41
Low-$0.13-loss 94.6%
Now-$0.38-Loss from high-84.3%
QAN-High-$6.08
Low-$1.35-loss-77.8%
Now-$1.58-Loss from high-74%
And of course much is said about QF not paying dividends yet in the last 10 years they have paid out 15 times,VBA just 4.

What does all this mean-you can use statistics to prove anything you want!

 

[amaroo]

Of course it all depends on the time you select with any graph.Do It for the last 5 years and a different story emerges-
VBA-High-$2.41
Low-$0.13-loss 94.6%
Now-$0.38-Loss from high-84.3%
QAN-High-$6.08
Low-$1.35-loss-77.8%
Now-$1.58-Loss from high-74%
And of course much is said about QF not paying dividends yet in the last 10 years they have paid out 15 times,VBA just 4.

What does all this mean-you can use statistics to prove anything you want!

There is nothing more tortured on this earth than statistics :mrgreen::mrgreen::mrgreen:

 

[cbourl]

Just my 5 cents worth
USA is all abuzz with worldwide unions joining AU unions in action against Qantas ( I wont use the other NAME) - Good on them - and I'm a loyal Qantas customer ever since the demise of Ansett which at least was a Star Alliance carrier! All we can do is pray for Virgin AU to join Star Alliance and then we won't have to tolerate the QF reductions in service and the way they treat their staff as wel las the massive reductions in service qg this brothel of a checkin installed throughout Au - Yesterday in C at MEL no Biz counter and all these machines which I dont see in Europe or Middle East or Asia or USA - my 2 bags labels printed wouldnt work and after I finally found 1 staff member who told me I could have checked in at the biz counter - (but no signage - is this another QF plot?????) The staff member had heard of worldwide union support against Qantas at least so I softened

In the USA for past week with many flights on mileage runs east coast west coast - theyv'e al lheard about it i nthe USA - so why no news here about one of our national carriers? ? ? ? ?

 

[drron]

I've also been in the USA for the last week and this Union ban hasn't featured in Florida,Dallas and vegas papers or the mainstream TV news.Only 1 AA employee that I brought up the subject with had heard of the shutdown.All most here knew about Australia was that Obama was there-which is more than they usually know about us.

 

[cbourl]

Perhaps NYC/SFO ie Califonia/NY are a little different in mentality from TX? As are the Brits?
And to be frank does not the USA revolve around NY/California? In terms or the Worlds? Despite what Jo Blog from Moose Droppings,Iowa thinks? (No disrespect intended - it an obvious fact)

 

[drron]

Perhaps NYC/SFO ie Califonia/NY are a little different in mentality from TX? As are the Brits?
And to be frank does not the USA revolve around NY/California? In terms or the Worlds? Despite what Jo Blog from Moose Droppings,Iowa thinks? (No disrespect intended - it an obvious fact)

You really dont understand the USA(no disrespect intended).There is a lot more to it than NYC and California.
Besides just searched the NY Times and the last article on the QF grounding was November 1.Nothing in the last week.
You also probably didn't know but the Dallas News runs one of the most respected airline blogs in the USA with the focus on AA and Oneworld.Not a mention of QF in November apart from the DOT approving the QF/AA closer ties.The resumption of service was reported on October 31-before the NY Times.
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