Covid _19 The future

[tomlee1986]

Intotally understand people being reluctant to use the app when they have had first hand experience of totalitarian Governments. But for those of us who have not had that experience, then well...

thanks for saying this... This is exactly why I really don’t like this app... as exactly as you said... people who had first hand experience of such governments would be more suspicious of what other governments might do with your personal information... fortunately Australia doesn’t have to go through this with robust democratic government and checks and balances from the public via the free press and regular free and fair elections at all levels of government ... that’s why more people might be more willing to trust the government with this data via the app

 

[lovetravellingoz]

. And Covid attacks older people as a rule. Certainly in Australia .

I presume by this what you really mean is that the outcome tends to be worse for older people, especially if they have particular commorbidities, as CV19 actually attacks all people.

People of all ages have died. People of all ages have had various symptoms. Older people have had CV19 and recovered including some 100 year olds.

Younger people generally are more able to resist that attack. School age children are thought to typically not develop as bad a case and their ability to transmit is thought to be less (ie they probably shed less).

It may well be some people are naturally immune or resistant to CV19.

 

[Pushka]

thanks for saying this... This is exactly why I really don’t like this app... as exactly as you said... people who had first hand experience of such governments would be more suspicious of what other governments might do with your personal information... fortunately Australia doesn’t have to go through this with robust democratic government and checks and balances from the public via the free press and regular free and fair elections at all levels of government ... that’s why more people might be more willing to trust the government with this data via the app

A couple of years ago we were travelling through parts of the former East Germany and we were led by a guy in his late twenties who was full of life, bubbly and entertaining. His parents he told us had been on the wrong side of the border (East). Then he took us through an area that experienced death as part of Kristallnacht and his demeanour shifted immediately. We continued walking to a castle that he normally took people through but this time, as he approached the gates, a soldier confronted him and sent him away. We weren't close to the conversation. He came back shaken and distressed. Even though he hadn't directly lived through that Eastern Blockade, the stories his parents told him were enough to send great stress and anxiety when confronted by authority, especially in uniform, on this day.

 

[tomlee1986]

I presume by this what you really mean is that the outcome tends to be worse for older people, especially if they have particular commorbidities, as CV19 actually attacks all people.

People of all ages have died. People of all ages have had various symptoms. Older people have had CV19 and recovered including some 100 year olds.

Younger people generally are more able to resist that attack. School age children are thought to typically not develop as bad a case and their ability to transmit is thought to be less (ie they probably shed less).

According to publicly available information... the reason the elderly are at higher risk... it’s because they might have more underlying health problems than others...

of course the fit and healthy people do die from this virus too in numbers, but their risk factor is not as strong as the elderly...

not sure about children and how come less affected but that is still being researched on

 

[Pushka]

I presume by this what you really mean is that the outcome tends to be worse for older people, especially if they have particular commorbidities, as CV19 actually attacks all people.

People of all ages have died. People of all ages have had various symptoms. Older people have had CV19 and recovered including some 100 year olds.

Younger people generally are more able to resist that attack. School age children are thought to typically not develop as bad a case and their ability to transmit is thought to be less (ie they probably shed less).

It may well be some people are naturally immune or resistant to CV19.

Yes it can attack younger people. And the average death rate in Australia is ? And not sure of valid, i read that 50% of the deaths in NY I think were people from Retirement Homes.

But that wasn't my point. It is that unless people are actually tested for Covid, then particularly in older people, Covid should not be used as an official cause of death in official statistics.

 

[tomlee1986]

A couple of years ago we were travelling through parts of the former East Germany and we were led by a guy in his late twenties who was full of life, bubbly and entertaining. His parents he told us had been on the wrong side of the border (East). Then he took us through an area that experienced death as part of Kristallnacht and his demeanour shifted immediately. We continued walking to a castle that he normally took people through but this time, as he approached the gates, a soldier confronted him and sent him away. We weren't close to the conversation. He came back shaken and distressed. Even though he hadn't directly lived through that Eastern Blockade, the stories his parents told him were enough to send great stress and anxiety when confronted by authority, especially in uniform, on this day.

For me... this last year has been particularly stressful after watching the news on HKG as I am born there... after last year... I have no faith or trust in the Chinese government in Beijing or HK... it is not easy to see how a city you grow up as a child being suffered like this... it is not something I wish upon even my worst enemy...

 

[tomlee1986]

Yes it can attack younger people. And the average death rate in Australia is ? And not sure of valid, i read that 50% of the deaths in NY I think were people from Retirement Homes.

But that wasn't my point. It is that unless people are actually tested for Covid, then particularly in older people, Covid should not be used as an official cause of death in official statistics.

I agree... bigger issue is many people in those homes are dead, but not in the tally despite being positive... this is because they were already cremated or buried before being tested at autopsy... this is not just a USA issue, but across the world even in Europe like Spain, Italy and UK

 

[GoldCanyon340]

Can someone discuss Belgium?

I'll mention Belgium but in an oblique way. In the early 1970s China's economy was the same size as Belgium's. It is a leviathan that is not going away.

While I want to see countries increasing their self reliance, and I do think it will happen post-Covid, I just cannot imagine it to any great degree. Australian businesses, as an example, have such high input costs with labour and property prices (*) that realistically how can they produce goods at a price that local people will buy? I simply do not holiday in Australia anymore due to the cost of living here. I'll always choose South East Asia where food and drink is cheaper (and better in my opinion).

(*) What I find to be of long term interest is how property prices will be affected. Honestly if house prices dropped by 25 to 35 per cent then that would be so good for the under 30s, maybe not as good for others but they had a good run for a long time. However if prices do drop by these amounts then the Australian government should consider legislation similar to New Zealand's whereby land and property sales to non-residents must be limited and subjected to rigorous examination. Otherwise it will not be under 30s in this country buying the property but instead the Chinese and citizens of oil-rich states; in other words exactly the same as how London has gone.

 

[moa999]

Personally think property has to fall (will probably be proved wrong though).

Demand
- Australia is a high services sector economy (international education and tourism) - these sectors will take a while to recover
- Less demand from foreign (particularly Chinese) buyers due to travel restrictions (and possible political issues)

Risk
- Particularly for commercial, but also residential, this has changed the Tenant - Landlord - Lender dynamic
- Investment properties will be less attractive due to higher risk, thus requiring higher rents or lower prices
- Banks will charge a premium due to higher risk of having to give future mortgage relief

Supply
- Will unfortunately be some forced sellers.

Offset
- Government has pumped a lot of free money into the system

 

[Pushka]

I'll mention Belgium but in an oblique way. In the early 1970s China's economy was the same size as Belgium's. It is a leviathan that is not going away.

While I want to see countries increasing their self reliance, and I do think it will happen post-Covid, I just cannot imagine it to any great degree. Australian businesses, as an example, have such high input costs with labour and property prices (*) that realistically how can they produce goods at a price that local people will buy? I simply do not holiday in Australia anymore due to the cost of living here. I'll always choose South East Asia where food and drink is cheaper (and better in my opinion).

(*) What I find to be of long term interest is how property prices will be affected. Honestly if house prices dropped by 25 to 35 per cent then that would be so good for the under 30s, maybe not as good for others but they had a good run for a long time. However if prices do drop by these amounts then the Australian government should consider legislation similar to New Zealand's whereby land and property sales to non-residents must be limited and subjected to rigorous examination. Otherwise it will not be under 30s in this country buying the property but instead the Chinese and citizens of oil-rich states; in other words exactly the same as how London has gone.

Having sold our house last year and with two children in their 30's then the fall in house price is personally a good thing for our family. I think going from our auction that there has been a tightening up on overseas ownership but where there is a will someone will find a way. But in any case, China Government has made it quite clear that their people will vote with their feet and no longer be involved with Australia. Yeah. Right.

But manufacturing costs are much too high in Australia. Power, land and Labour costs. Maybe that will change in some industries.

 

[tomlee1986]

Having sold our house last year and with two children in their 30's then the fall in house price is personally a good thing for our family. I think going from our auction that there has been a tightening up on overseas ownership but where there is a will someone will find a way. But in any case, China Government has made it quite clear that their people will vote with their feet and no longer be involved with Australia. Yeah. Right.

But manufacturing costs are much too high in Australia. Power, land and Labour costs. Maybe that will change in some industries.

May I say this... the Chinese people especially parents would continue involving children in Australia especially the high school and university sector... the reason... better economies AND possible immigration to this country using any legal loopholes possible!!

(How i know this? It is because I am Chinese origin and know how some Chinese people think!)

 

[Pushka]

May I say this... the Chinese people especially parents would continue involving children in Australia especially the high school and university sector... the reason... better economies AND possible immigration to this country using any legal loopholes possible!!

(How i know this? It is because I am Chinese origin and know how some Chinese people think!)

Yes. Do you think that there is any way that the Chinese Government can prevent that happening?

 

[tomlee1986]

Yes. Do you think that there is any way that the Chinese Government can prevent that happening?

In my honest opinion... yes... withholding passports issued... the reason being the CCP can say anything to you unless you toe the party line, you or your family’s passport will NOT be issued

 

[drron]

A little while ago I read this a little while ago and thought-Wow.Beating both the Spanish Flu and Covid is unique.

Dutch woman becomes world's oldest person to survive coronavirus

Cornelia Ras fell ill on March 17, the day after her 107th birthday, after attending a church service with other residents of her nursing home.

www.dailymail.co.uk

107-year-old Dutch woman believed to be oldest coronavirus survivor

She has survived two world wars and the Spanish flu epidemic from a century ago. Now, she appears to be the oldest person ever to have licked COVID-19. Cornelia Ras, 107 years young, of Goeree-Over…

www.nydailynews.com

But then came this-

Turkish woman becomes the second 107-year-old to beat coronavirus

Havahan Karadeniz was admitted to a hospital in Istanbul a week ago after experiencing symptoms of the virus.

www.dailymail.co.uk

But 3 now-

106-year-old woman who survived Spanish Flu, now beats Covid-19 too

Ana del Valle is the oldest survivor of the pandemic outbreaks in Spain.Ana was born in October 1913 and in less than six months she will turn 107

www.livemint.com

 

[lovetravellingoz]

A little while ago I read this a little while ago and thought-Wow.Beating both the Spanish Flu and Covid is unique.

Speaking of Covid 19, the Spanish flu and a unique occurrence involving a centenarian:

100-year-old Philip Kahn recently died of Covid 19.

Born in 1919, Kahn’s twin brother died just weeks later of the Spanish Flu.

Long Island Man Dies From Coronavirus 100 Years After Twin Brother Died In Spanish Flu Pandemic

Born in 1919, Philip Kahn's twin brother died just weeks later in one of the deadliest pandemics in human history.

newyork.cbslocal.com

 

[tomlee1986]

Speaking of Covid 19, the Spanish flu and a unique occurrence involving a centenarian:

100-year-old Philip Kahn recently died of Covid 19.

Born in 1919, Kahn’s twin brother died just weeks later of the Spanish Flu.

Long Island Man Dies From Coronavirus 100 Years After Twin Brother Died In Spanish Flu Pandemic

Born in 1919, Philip Kahn's twin brother died just weeks later in one of the deadliest pandemics in human history.

newyork.cbslocal.com

I saw that news too.. completely heart breaking to read in every sense of the word