China To Connect Its High-Speed Rail To Europe

[samh004]

While I appreciate many of us prefer to get straight to our destinations in the most comfortable way possible, there are some that prefer to stretch out the trip to enjoy the comfort for longer. Cruising can take a while, but new high-speed trains seem to be the popular new transport solution to replace the hassles of airports and planes.

From Inhabitat:
China already has the most advanced and extensive high-speed rail lines in the world, and soon that network will be connected all the way to Europe and the UK. With initial negotiations and surveys already complete, China is now making plans to connect its HSR line through 17 other countries in Asia and Eastern Europe in order to connect to the existing infrastructure in the EU. Additional rail lines will also be built into South East Asia as well as Russia, in what will likely become the largest infrastructure project in history.

Relative speed aside, two days to get from London to Beijing isn’t that bad a deal.

Would high-speed rail in Australia make anyone change their flying patterns?

 

[harvyk]

Would high-speed rail in Australia make anyone change their flying patterns?

Nope...

High speed rail works well in europe as most destinations are fairly close to each other. In Australia, the two capital cities which are the closest to each other is SYD and CBR. A high speed rail link between these two cities could work effectively (as the differences now between driving and flying is fairly small time wise), but for everywhere else the distances are just too great for it to be anything more than a novelty.

 

[MarcB]

I could see high speed rail working here for domestic trips if you could go overnight in sleeper cars. With most of my meetings commencing early morning, I usually have to go the night before anyway. If I could jump a train, sleep onboard and disembark right in the middle of town, I would certainly consider it - especially to avoid airport security lines and taxi queues!

 

[harvyk]

MarcB, how early morning are you talking? With exception to breakfast meetings I've usually been able to find flights to get me most places before (or at) start of business.

 

[medhead]

I'd love to see a high speed train service in Australia. trouble is that I don't think we have the population density to make it work. With a decent high express service it should be possible to achieve travel times of 2 to 3 hours between mel, adl, cbr, and syd as direct connections. so not adl-cbr/syd or mel-syd. Possibly also 3 or 4 hours between syd and bne. If you could get those times for a second class seat for like $20 I think it could almost work.

Having done 2 night trains in europe, i don't think they are a good option of interstate meetings. you arrive in a state that needs a shower and there generally aren't those facilities available.

One interesting thing i read today was that the bejing shanghai line is budgetted at $35 billion, iirc

 

[harvyk]

I'd love to see a high speed train service in Australia. trouble is that I don't think we have the population density to make it work. With a decent high express service it should be possible to achieve travel times of 2 to 3 hours between mel, adl, cbr, and syd as direct connections. so not adl-cbr/syd or mel-syd. Possibly also 3 or 4 hours between syd and bne. If you could get those times for a second class seat for like $20 I think it could almost work.

Having done 2 night trains in europe, i don't think they are a good option of interstate meetings. you arrive in a state that needs a shower and there generally aren't those facilities available.

One interesting thing i read today was that the bejing shanghai line is budgetted at $35 billion, iirc

The system that keep getting proposed for CBR-SYD they are talking times of between 2 to 3 hours for a one way trip. Given that flying takes 2 to 3 hours anyway (by the time you've gotten to the airport, checked in, been through security, boarded at least 20 minutes earlier, flown there, picked up bags and then gotten yourself into the respective city) train does make sense as it can be from city centre to city centre in that time.

 

[samh004]

One interesting thing i read today was that the bejing shanghai line is budgetted at $35 billion, iirc

At one stage that was a Maglev, is it still a Maglev? That might explain the cost.

 

[Durin's Bane]

High tech public transport in Australia? I don't think so. Our high wages, low productivity, brain dead politicians, and bureaucracy can attest to that. Plus look at the quality of existing trains - filthy, smelly, covered with graffiti, and laughably expensive. What hope do I have? Zip. You'll see High Speed rail or Maglev in India before you see it here.


In the 1 in a trillion chance that it does happen I think between Sydney and Canberra it would definitely be welcome, and to a lesser extent Sydney to Melbourne.

 

[sriver]

Nope...

High speed rail works well in europe as most destinations are fairly close to each other. In Australia, the two capital cities which are the closest to each other is SYD and CBR. A high speed rail link between these two cities could work effectively (as the differences now between driving and flying is fairly small time wise), but for everywhere else the distances are just too great for it to be anything more than a novelty.

I know the topic is talking about Europe as an example but the Shinkansen in Japan runs successfully over distances far greater than just a trip between SYD and CBR.

Whether or it works somewhere else doesn't really prove that it'll work here though.

What I did like about using the high speed rail in Japan was that it ran right through a city and you could get on (or off) from multiple points. Plus it's quiet, smooth and they get keep them moving quite quickly (through stops).

On another note since high speed rail can co-exist perfectly fine with airlines (look at Europe & Japan) we shouldn't always be thinking of it in a 'versus' situation so much (articles always love comparisons though).

 

[harvyk]

Lets look at it from a different angle.

Japan for example has roughly 20 times less land area than we do, with a population of nearly 6 times the size of Australia.

Europe has roughly 1.4 times more land area than we do, but their population is 33 times more than Australia.

The key thing is that both Europe and Japan (and china) has the population to build an effective high speed rail system. Our largest population centres are all under 4 million people. I doubt that a cost effective high speed rail could really be put in place, which can compete with airlines. ($20 TT fares anyone) considering that airlines do have a speed advantage.

Based on the example of the beijing \ shanghai line being $35 billion, it would mean that every australian (not just tax payers) would need to kick in $1590 each just to build this one piece of railway. (Roughly the distance between SYD \ MEL).

I can personally see ppl from PER being completely happy to throw serious money into a SYD \ MEL rail link.

 

[medhead]

The system that keep getting proposed for CBR-SYD they are talking times of between 2 to 3 hours for a one way trip. Given that flying takes 2 to 3 hours anyway (by the time you've gotten to the airport, checked in, been through security, boarded at least 20 minutes earlier, flown there, picked up bags and then gotten yourself into the respective city) train does make sense as it can be from city centre to city centre in that time.

2 to 3 hours is just not high speed. The road trip is 289km (according to google maps). Frankfurt munich is 393 km by car, and the train takes 3 hours 10 minutes and stops at least 3 times, including a turn around in stuttgart. Based on that comparison, they need to be doing syd-cbr in just over an hour, maybe a bit longer with one stop.

Otherwise there is no point. And i guess that is why it will never happen.

At one stage that was a Maglev, is it still a Maglev? That might explain the cost.

I'm not sure, it was just a small bit in the finance pages, mentioned the price and that it would open early.

 

[medhead]

The key thing is that both Europe and Japan (and china) has the population to build an effective high speed rail system. Our largest population centres are all under 4 million people. I doubt that a cost effective high speed rail could really be put in place, which can compete with airlines. ($20 TT fares anyone) considering that airlines do have a speed advantage.

Based on the example of the beijing \ shanghai line being $35 billion, it would mean that every australian (not just tax payers) would need to kick in $1590 each just to build this one piece of railway. (Roughly the distance between SYD \ MEL).

I can personally see ppl from PER being completely happy to throw serious money into a SYD \ MEL rail link.

That is an excellent comparison with shanghai. The chinese are talking about a 4 hour train trip. If you could do that syd-mel then $20 seats would compete with TT because you wouldn't have to get yourself out to tulla - you know CBD to CBD, bigger seats, walking room, club car.
Given that the chinese probably have a few more stops in between it might be possible to shorter the travel time.

But of course population density is a problem. but it might work on mel-syd due to it being such a busy route.

As for the wild west - stuff 'em, just take a bit more of their GST.

 

[harvyk]

2 to 3 hours is just not high speed.

I agree, I personally thought that they could do better than that.

The road trip is 289km (according to google maps).

Yes it is, but the last 50 or so km down along the M5 in SYD is a very slow trip. My best (slowest effort) was 6 hours from CBR CBD to SYD CBD. 3 hours to get to SYD, 3 hours to get along the M5 at a speed which I could have ran faster than.

Even at the quickest (without speeding) it still takes me over 3 hours to drive from CBR - SYD. (CBD to CBD)

 

[munitalP]

and from recent experience - Shanghai/Beijing/Harbin return - the high speed network in China although comfy is far from high speed.

ICE - thats another story and IMHO (excluding cost) could easily accommodate in Australia - say MEL/AUBREY/CBR/SYD @ 250km/per hour or greater...

Rail travel again in my humble opinion is a fantastic way to travel if time is not a constraint

Mr!

 

[wtolmie]

the 5:50min trip from Fuzhou to Shanghai has more than 2hrs at 120km/hr as the tracks for the 1st hour and last how of the trip, have not been upgraded to suit high speed..

Also, it would be nice if there was a premium seating category ILO hard and soft.. Prices for the D train are good though

 

[dajop]

2 to 3 hours is just not high speed. The road trip is 289km (according to google maps). .

Totally agreed. There's a train that does Bendigo-Melbourne (two stops) in 1:24. That's 162km. That equates to 2.5hrs for 289km. OK that is after the "fast(er)" rail upgrade, but even before I've been on trains that did it about 1:35. So in my books 2 to 3 hours for SYD to CBR is not "high speed" rail, and a waste of money.

 

[harvyk]

Totally agreed. There's a train that does Bendigo-Melbourne (two stops) in 1:24. That's 162km. That equates to 2.5hrs for 289km. OK that is after the "fast(er)" rail upgrade, but even before I've been on trains that did it about 1:35. So in my books 2 to 3 hours for SYD to CBR is not "high speed" rail, and a waste of money.

Welcome to the half coughd capital...

 

[dajop]

Welcome to the half coughd capital...

I am confused with talk of SYD-CBR, which half coughd capital are you referring to? The defacto one or the real one? Oh, both ...

 

[NM]

I am confused with talk of SYD-CBR, which half coughd capital are you referring to?

Well, put them together and what have you got?

 

[StevePER]

Well, put them together and what have you got?

An cough whole?