Changes coming to domestic flight check-in

[jb747]

Again - what's the problem if you've got nothing to hide..??

But this is the comment that is used to justify all sorts of infringements of rights. A nibble here, a nibble there, and soon the whole pie is gone.

This is not about making air travel safer. It's basically an extension of big brother.

 

[dajop]

HONESTLY - on US domestic flights - I noticed ZERO difference in boarding times pre vs post 9/11 when gate ID checks were introduced.

Actually on my last few visits to US there were no gate ID checks at all, just a TSA check that ID was valid and matched boarding pass upon entering the sterile area. That's why there was no difference in boarding times (and that's not getting into the more generic argument round how much longer boarding times in the US already are and the real hold up in boarding being people finding space in overhead lockers for their kitchen sinks).

Again - what's the problem if you've got nothing to hide..??

It's not just about airline security and having nothing to hide, it's about the bigger picture - the sort of society we live in.

Actually why stop at airline checks? Why not do border crossing checks of vehicles crossing interstate lines (add a levy to petrol to pay for that one)? Let's start doing ID checks of passengers boarding interstate and regional trains (a security tax on all such rail fares)? What about security and bag screening on suburban rail?

 

[dfcatch]

But this is the comment that is used to justify all sorts of infringements of rights. A nibble here, a nibble there, and soon the whole pie is gone.

This is not about making air travel safer. It's basically an extension of big brother.

For the record - I don't have a problem with it. I don't need to be anonymous when I'm presenting for something that has my name on it.

If I'm buying a bottle of milk, and I'm paying cash - then yes - the store doesn't need to know my name.

Back to the issue - JB747 - wouldn't you like to know that the pax on your manifest are actually the people sitting on the other side of your coughpit door?

Besides the security aspect - the airline does have legislative obligations to know who is on-board the aircraft does it not?

 

[medhead]

Back to the issue - JB747 - wouldn't you like to know that the pax on your manifest are actually the people sitting on the other side of your coughpit door?

Besides the security aspect - the airline does have legislative obligations to know who is on-board the aircraft does it not?

Why would it be important to know that Joe Bloggs is really Billy Smith the drug mule, for the pilot?

I imagine that the airline fulfills it's obligations about knowing who the passenger is, by getting them to add a name to the booking and the T&C saying name change not permitted.

 

[jb747]

Back to the issue - JB747 - wouldn't you like to know that the pax on your manifest are actually the people sitting on the other side of your coughpit door?

No, why would I care? As long as they aren't armed, and that's entirely different issue....which this does nothing to address.

The problem with this is that it is NOT about airline security, and any attempt to paint it as such is misleading. It is about control, and policing. Airports are unpleasant enough, without adding this to the mix.

Plus, how hard is it to make a fake photo ID? Which ones will they 'accept'? Driver's licence only? Perhaps a firearms licence? Or a club membership? I've never seen police ID, so how can I tell it isn't fake? This is just a can of worms.

 

[dfcatch]

No, why would I care? As long as they aren't armed, and that's entirely different issue....which this does nothing to address.

The problem with this is that it is NOT about airline security, and any attempt to paint it as such is misleading. It is about control, and policing. Airports are unpleasant enough, without adding this to the mix.

Plus, how hard is it to make a fake photo ID? Which ones will they 'accept'? Driver's licence only? Perhaps a firearms licence? Or a club membership? I've never seen police ID, so how can I tell it isn't fake? This is just a can of worms.

Points taken.

My view is just that I don't see why it's such a big deal.

I've got no problem with it, and really don't see that it's a problem when I've been subjected to it overseas. And don't see it as a problem here when I'm traveling through the international terminal.

I take the points being made about the effectiveness of the policy, but I genuinely don't see it as being a physically difficult thing to do (or be subjected to).

On the flipside - I don't accept the argument that "oh it's not foolproof, so we shouldn't do it at all". That's a different discussion altogether IMHO.

 

[notzac]

On the flipside - I don't accept the argument that "oh it's not foolproof, so we shouldn't do it at all". That's a different discussion altogether IMHO.

It'd be an interesting discussion to have .. I guess I take issue with adding additional checks because IMHO they don't make things any more secure. I get why we do them for international travel, but that has more to do with immigration laws than it does with security so far as I was aware. If there was something that both a) made my passage through an airport easier and b) improved security in real terms, I'd be very interested in it.

 

[dfcatch]

It'd be an interesting discussion to have .. I guess I take issue with adding additional checks because IMHO they don't make things any more secure. I get why we do them for international travel, but that has more to do with immigration laws than it does with security so far as I was aware. If there was something that both a) made my passage through an airport easier and b) improved security in real terms, I'd be very interested in it.

I agree with you completely here.

The Israeli process caught me by surprise.

Before I even got to the check-in desk - there was a myriad of seemingly innocuous-but-yet-personal questions...... It took a few minutes for me to figure out what was going on.

Post check-in, outbound immigration was horrendously slow, over an hour, i'm told that's normal and has been that way since before time began.

The security screening itself was quick and certainly no more thorough (on the surface at least) than in the US or here or UK or similar.

They certainly aim to stop threats way before you even get to security.

That said - they only have one airport to defend, and security screening is a way of life in Israel. You face similar overt (and covert) security just to get into the shopping mall or even McDonalds.

 

[medhead]

Do I dare mention the disclaimer on the reverse of my licence:

Use of the permit/licence for identification purposes, other than for policing road traffic laws, is not intended or authorised, and is solely at the risk of the user.

 

[dfcatch]

Do I dare mention the disclaimer on the reverse of my licence:

I assume that's a SA thing..??

I've never heard of that before.

That said - QLD is back in the stone age and only JUST starting to introduce modern licences such as like VIC and NSW have had for over a decade.

 

[medhead]

I assume that's a SA thing..??

I've never heard of that before.

That said - QLD is back in the stone age and only JUST starting to introduce modern licences such as like VIC and NSW have had for over a decade.

Yeah it's an SA licence. No idea what my NSW or QLD licenses have said. However, I'm sure ACA or TT discussed this point a few years ago.

I could take a view that I don't wish to "risk" using my DL as ID. That might slow things down a little bit....

 

[dfcatch]

Yeah it's an SA licence. No idea what my NSW or QLD licenses have said. However, I'm sure ACA or TT discussed this point a few years ago.

I could take a view that I don't wish to "risk" using my DL as ID. That might slow things down a little bit....

You might have to medhead when buying grog...... If your workout routine keeps getting better - they may suspect you're underage

 

[medhead]

You might have to medhead when buying grog...... If your workout routine keeps getting better - they may suspect you're underage

Would I need ID to buy the hair dye as well

 

[dfcatch]

Would I need ID to buy the hair dye as well

It's not grey - it's silver?

Think Anderson Cooper

 

[m_ratt]

Again - you're talking about security screening from a macro viewpoint.

My understanding is that this suggestion is only about checking ID at the gate (and maybe at check-in), to ensure that ID matches BP.

In that case - it doesn't take any extra time. There is more time spent waiting for the BP scanner than there is in "presenting your passport or photo ID open to the photo please."

I really don't understand the opposition to this.

It doesn't have to affect NGCI either, as you have used some form of ID technologically, and then use photo ID at the gate.

It may be all well and good to introduce ID checks at the gate.... but for what purpose - what would you like it to achieve? Then you must examine if what you are proposing would actually meet that need.

From what I can tell, you think it seems to be a good idea, but can't explain what benefit would actually result.
Having been through US airport security far too many times in the last two weeks, I can assure you that checking ID properly takes much longer than scanning of a boarding pass (20-40+ seconds vs 5 seconds). If the ID check doesn't involve an assessment of authenticity, then it serves no purpose and will achieve nothing.

 

[dfcatch]

It may be all well and good to introduce ID checks at the gate.... but for what purpose - what would you like it to achieve? Then you must examine if what you are proposing would actually meet that need.

From what I can tell, you think it seems to be a good idea, but can't explain what benefit would actually result.
Having been through US airport security far too many times in the last two weeks, I can assure you that checking ID properly takes much longer than scanning of a boarding pass (20-40+ seconds vs 5 seconds). If the ID check doesn't involve an assessment of authenticity, then it serves no purpose and will achieve nothing.

When you talk about the delay of checking ID - are you talking about at the gate or at the TSA checkpoint?

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with the viewpoint that you and others are putting forward, my personal view is simply that I'm non-plussed by the proposal.

I don't see it causing inconvenience, taking extra time, costing more etc etc.

Whilst I acknowledge that its effectiveness is a legitimate thing to question - I just don't understand the level of strident opposition considering that we're one of the few places that doesn't do it.

Personally - I couldn't care less if they do or if they don't. I'm so use to showing my ID at the gate anyway - I don't see it as a problem.

Is it simply resistance to change??

Personally I find the lengthening security queues at Australian Domestic airports to be more of an inconvenience, or the lack of priority boarding, or Munital standing in my way of the party pies in the J Lounge

 

[ozmille]

I always find it amusing that they take my toothpaste off me, and then immediately give me 570 tonnes of explosives.

Good to know that even a pilot sometimes forgets, makes me feel a lot les stupid for having to hand over my tooth paste (yet again...) you would think I would have learned by now