Cancelled Again!

[jpp42]

In the US, some airlines offer the ability to do same-day standby as a frequent flier perk. Maybe something Qantas could look at as they "enhance" so many other aspects of the QFF program.

US airlines however have always been quite a bit more generous about same-day "flow forward" due to the large number of passengers on connecting itineraries, and the high chance of daily disruptions. If someone shows up to the airport early, it's almost always in their best interests to get them on their way, since this by definition opens up a seat on the later flight, which might be critical to getting some other person home after they've missed a connection. This is less of an issue where the network is mostly point-to-point flights like in Australian domestic flying, and we also have much better weather on average.

There's really no excuse for Qantas not allowing free "flow forward" on domestic legs of international itineraries however. It's not like this is taking away revenue from a flexible ticket, like it might be on a one-hop golden triangle flight. The international flight will still be leaving at the same time, and getting the passenger to the hub earlier is clearly in everyone's best interests. Once that flight leaves with empty seats they have lost this "perishable" inventory forever.

 

[encryptededdy]

There's really no excuse for Qantas not allowing free "flow forward" on domestic legs of international itineraries however.

But they do? Unless I've missed something, every anecdote on this forum suggests that if you're on an international itinerary, you can arrive early and get put on an earlier domestic flight with no issue. Admittedly, the call centre really should let you do it (although I suspect that's more an issue with the general state of QF call centres as opposed to a policy issue)

 

[Vic]

Its not just QF.

My flight KUL-DOH was changed 5 times by QR in the space of a few weeks, forward a day, back 12 hours, forward, backward. was most concerning as had a connecting onward from from DOH which went from 3 hours to 27 hours. They then bumped me off to another airline code share to avoid having to pay for a transit hotel and ended up with 12 transit time.

Also MH cancelled my connecting flight SIN to KUL and rebooked me on a flight that left 10minutes after the scheduled arrival of QF flight from Brisbane - impossible connection. When I complained they shifted me forward 24 hours which meant I would have to pay for a hotel in SIN and lose my hotel booking in KUL when there was a perfectly good flight 6 hours away. Two more calls to get them to agree to nearest acceptable connection.

Are all those flights on the same booking, or are they separate bookings. If separate, I'm not sure that's the same as the OP's situation.

 

[Bundy Bear]

In the US, some airlines offer the ability to do same-day standby as a frequent flier perk. Maybe something Qantas could look at as they "enhance" so many other aspects of the QFF program.

US airlines however have always been quite a bit more generous about same-day "flow forward" due to the large number of passengers on connecting itineraries, and the high chance of daily disruptions. If someone shows up to the airport early, it's almost always in their best interests to get them on their way, since this by definition opens up a seat on the later flight, which might be critical to getting some other person home after they've missed a connection. This is less of an issue where the network is mostly point-to-point flights like in Australian domestic flying, and we also have much better weather on average.

There's really no excuse for Qantas not allowing free "flow forward" on domestic legs of international itineraries however. It's not like this is taking away revenue from a flexible ticket, like it might be on a one-hop golden triangle flight. The international flight will still be leaving at the same time, and getting the passenger to the hub earlier is clearly in everyone's best interests. Once that flight leaves with empty seats they have lost this "perishable" inventory forever.

Completely agree, I don't know why Qantas don't allow it, but said later the call centre can't seem to be able to do it.

US airlines seems to be a bit more flexible in changes, so many more planes and connections, once you are at the airport, its almost happy to get you on the next plane so you don't become their problem if the flight is cancelled.

 

[motlking]

On my SYD DOM - INT transit on Monday I would say it was 20 minutes inc bus transit, immigration and security.

OK, I had APEC for immigration and security but I wasn't expecting it and I don't think it made much difference.

But every day is a different day at SYD

That's quick! I read the bus ride takes 10 mins and it only comes every 30 mins

 

[Vic]

Which actually says more about the way they run the business. They would prefer to earn the extra $$$ from flexible fares, and then take the risk that a bunch of people might have to be accommodated by a distruption.

If there was an empty un-sold seat on an earlier flight, why not offer it to a passenger who's arrived earlier, has no check in bags to offload and doesn't mind not getting their preferential seat? Some people value time as well.

They run a business where people who pay for flexibility get flexibility and those who don't pay only get flexibility for special events. I'm not sure what you think this says about how they run the business. It seems perfectly logical to me.

I suspect that people who value their time do pay more for flexibility. I certainly do book flexible by preference, and I can still charge out my time while sitting in an airport lounge.

On my SYD DOM - INT transit on Monday I would say it was 20 minutes inc bus transit, immigration and security.

OK, I had APEC for immigration and security but I wasn't expecting it and I don't think it made much difference.

But every day is a different day at SYD

Hand my first sydney connection the other week on a saturday. The bus was only running half hourly, and I'm sure I could've got the train across quicker.

so just a point that 20 minutes on week days might not translate to 20 minutes on weekends.

 

[justinbrett]

In the US, some airlines offer the ability to do same-day standby as a frequent flier perk. Maybe something Qantas could look at as they "enhance" so many other aspects of the QFF program.

US airlines however have always been quite a bit more generous about same-day "flow forward" due to the large number of passengers on connecting itineraries, and the high chance of daily disruptions. If someone shows up to the airport early, it's almost always in their best interests to get them on their way, since this by definition opens up a seat on the later flight, which might be critical to getting some other person home after they've missed a connection. This is less of an issue where the network is mostly point-to-point flights like in Australian domestic flying, and we also have much better weather on average.

There's really no excuse for Qantas not allowing free "flow forward" on domestic legs of international itineraries however. It's not like this is taking away revenue from a flexible ticket, like it might be on a one-hop golden triangle flight. The international flight will still be leaving at the same time, and getting the passenger to the hub earlier is clearly in everyone's best interests. Once that flight leaves with empty seats they have lost this "perishable" inventory forever.

The flipside to that is it's almost impossible to use the same day change if flying First (which is free if you are flying first) because of the number of upgrades they hand out.

In fact, if you have a legitimate need to change your flight and willing to pay, you might be forced to downgrade. It makes your expensive F tickets no more flexible than the cheapest non refundable Y ticket if you want to stay in F.

 

[BD1959]

SYD-MEL cancellations are seemingly the most frequent cancelled these days (haven’t seen actual data, just lived experience) - most of my friends and work colleagues avoid booking “off-hour” flights as these seem to be the ones more often cancelled (not that applies in your case but presumably low bookings).

I don't doubt the more frequent cancellations of late given the amount of comments in this forum however cancelling off-(half)hour flights is nothing new. Pre-Covid, when I was commuting between MEL-SYD every two weeks, I'd deliberately book a flight on the xx:15 or xx:45 because it was generally cheaper but also safe in the knowledge that it would be likely cancelled and I'd get either a call or text mid-morning informing me of such so that I could rearrange my late afternoon/evening flight around the meetings I'd had booked since buying the fare.

Regards,

BD

 

[jpp42]

The flipside to that is it's almost impossible to use the same day change if flying First (which is free if you are flying first) because of the number of upgrades they hand out.

In fact, if you have a legitimate need to change your flight and willing to pay, you might be forced to downgrade. It makes your expensive F tickets no more flexible than the cheapest non refundable Y ticket if you want to stay in F.

Interesting. I've flown US domestic First a few times, as a result of emailed offers to upgrade (for a relatively low fee, which I realise does mean seats were less likely to be there for your flexible ticket). But I thought that free upgrades were only cleared at a fairly last minute , like 30 minutes before the flight, hence those monitors at the gates telling people whether they've been upgraded or not? On AA, I did receive a free upgrade through that process once based on my OWE status, which is fairly low down the totem pole (it was a day/time that mostly had leisure fliers, I think).

 

[SeatBackForward]

They run a business where people who pay for flexibility get flexibility and those who don't pay only get flexibility for special events. I'm not sure what you think this says about how they run the business. It seems perfectly logical to me.

I suspect that people who value their time do pay more for flexibility. I certainly do book flexible by preference, and I can still charge out my time while sitting in an airport lounge.

When you are travelling on a flexible fare, and arrive at the airport early, are you automatically offered a seat on and earlier flight when checking in?

 

[jpp42]

But they do? Unless I've missed something, every anecdote on this forum suggests that if you're on an international itinerary, you can arrive early and get put on an earlier domestic flight with no issue. Admittedly, the call centre really should let you do it (although I suspect that's more an issue with the general state of QF call centres as opposed to a policy issue)

I can guarantee you that the opposite doesn't work - if you are returning to Australia off an International flight, and arrive early enough that there's an earlier domestic connection, they will just laugh at you when you request an earlier flight when re-checking your bags (unless on a flexible fare). This has been my experience despite several tries, even as Platinum QFF. (This may be different on days of bad weather of course.)

 

[Vic]

When you are travelling on a flexible fare, and arrive at the airport early, are you automatically offered a seat on and earlier flight when checking in?

I can't recall being automatically offered such...
I've also had no problem (aside from my personal requirement to refuse a middle seat) getting moved early when that is an option.
I buy flexible because my need to travel can change, but if I do travel it is most often for the times booked.

I've got a test next week where I have 10 hours in Sydney, that I thought I'd use, and the need to be in Sydney has moved.

 

[Vic]

I can guarantee you that the opposite doesn't work - if you are returning to Australia off an International flight, and arrive early enough that there's an earlier domestic connection, they will just laugh at you when you request an earlier flight when re-checking your bags (unless on a flexible fare). This has been my experience despite several tries, even as Platinum QFF. (This may be different on days of bad weather of course.)

I wasn't laughed at last Monday... I don't recall it being a bad weather day in Sydney.

 

[BD1959]

I can guarantee you that the opposite doesn't work - if you are returning to Australia off an International flight, and arrive early enough that there's an earlier domestic connection, they will just laugh at you when you request an earlier flight when re-checking your bags (unless on a flexible fare). This has been my experience despite several tries, even as Platinum QFF. (This may be different on days of bad weather of course.)

Plat here. Arrived on a delayed QF12 on Oct 16 and slepped it over to the Domestic Transfer desks at about 9:30am. The next available J seat was on the Noon flight, obviously my preference was to fly down to MEL as early as possible so I asked for the last Y seat on the 11:00am. Even though this meant the CSR had to get the ticket reissued it was all done with a smile and I was duly assigned my middle seat ...

Good News is that I've always found the staff at this check-in area to be superbly accommodating, better news was that I had the "ping" on boarding and a new BP for 1A.

Regards,

BD

 

[justinbrett]

Interesting. I've flown US domestic First a few times, as a result of emailed offers to upgrade (for a relatively low fee, which I realise does mean seats were less likely to be there for your flexible ticket). But I thought that free upgrades were only cleared at a fairly last minute , like 30 minutes before the flight, hence those monitors at the gates telling people whether they've been upgraded or not? On AA, I did receive a free upgrade through that process once based on my OWE status, which is fairly low down the totem pole (it was a day/time that mostly had leisure fliers, I think).

The difference being standby F doesn't have a seat at all on the plane, Y upgrade already has the seat. So Same Day change won't clear unless there's a spot on the plane - moving from Y to F is easy because they oversell. It's not just upgrades, F is much cheaper over there and can get booked out weeks in advance.

For example, looking at DFW-LAS for tomorrow (their time), there's only one F seat available for the entire day on the route, the two later flights are sold out in F. This is what I have found anytime I've contemplated doing same day change there.

 

[drron]

Being a cynic it is a cheap way of getting a better on time performance figure.

 

[serfty]

But they do? Unless I've missed something, every anecdote on this forum suggests that if you're on an international itinerary, you can arrive early and get put on an earlier domestic flight with no issue. Admittedly, the call centre really should let you do it (although I suspect that's more an issue with the general state of QF call centres as opposed to a policy issue)

No, in my specific anecdote my leverage was a cancelled flight and being auto(?) changed to a flight two hours later.

Without such schedule irregularity I am unlikely to have been moved considering my O class booking.

 

[p--and--t]

Are all those flights on the same booking, or are they separate bookings. If separate, I'm not sure that's the same as the OP's situation.

All same booking

 

[serfty]

All same booking

Absolutely - booked with multi segment.

I departed T3 J lounge 1:25pm and arrived G15 at just as they boarded the bus. If you didn't have a BP, the advice was to take landside transit.

As a li'l kicker, SIN delayed 40 minutes ... and 2PM landed on time.

Note it would have been 4pm before I could get the G15 transfer bus.

 

[encryptededdy]

Guess it's my turn now - my SYD-MEL got cancelled tomorrow morning (that's ~15 hours notice) and now I'm on a later flight with a 1h40m connection time. Should be doable assuming things actually run on time, but probably not much time in the flounge. If I miss QF93 due to domestic delays, then it'll be a world of pain trying to get to Vancouver on time and in Business.

There's no J seats left on any earlier domestic flights to connect to QF93 tomorrow.

Anyone know what queues are like for security and passport control in MEL in the morning these days?