Caltex - QF points instead of fuel discount

[Mark3000]

I guess we can look at it another way. In the last 30 days qantas says I earned 10000 points. Let's assume that includes 240 petrol points (it doesn't) I've paid no other surcharges. So 10000 points cost me $4.80 - 0.05 cents per point.

Yes but logically that is the wrong way to look at it. Each transaction is independent. Just because you get 10000 points for free, doesn't mean buying another 240 points at 2 cents each is necessarily a good deal. It doesn't mean that the points cost you 0.05 c each, they cost 2 c each. Now if you redeem for F and get 8 c per point value then it's really worth it. But this thread is about the value of buying points for 2 c each and not about other points you get elsewhere or the points you get by using Amex etc as Burmans and others have eloquently explained above as those are independent events

 

[medhead]

Yes but logically that is the wrong way to look at it. Each transaction is independent. Just because you get 10000 points for free, doesn't mean buying another 240 points at 2 cents each is necessarily a good deal. It doesn't mean that the points cost you 0.05 c each, they cost 2 c each. Now if you redeem for F and get 8 c per point value then it's really worth it. But this thread is about the value of buying points for 2 c each and not about other points you get elsewhere or the points you get by using Amex etc as Burmans and others have eloquently explained above as those are independent events

It's the wrong way to look at it, is it? Really? My lack of eloquence doesn't make it the wrong way to look at it. I've given my reason why I don't look at individual transactions in isolation. Accept it and move on.

 

[Mark3000]

It's the wrong way to look at it, is it? Really? My lack of eloquence doesn't make it the wrong way to look at it. I've given my reason why I don't look at individual transactions in isolation. Accept it and move on.

Yes medhead it is.
No need to be so sensitive. But that is a common reaction when logic fails. I certainly don't care what you do but this forum is about helping other people and that's what I'm trying to do. I've noticed your posts can often be quite defensive and slightly aggressive so I'm not going to take it personally. Have a lovely day medhead

 

[medhead]

Yes medhead it is.
No need to be so sensitive. But that is a common reaction when logic fails. I certainly don't care what you do but this forum is about helping other people and that's what I'm trying to do. I've noticed your posts can often be quite defensive and slightly aggressive so I'm not going to take it personally. Have a lovely day medhead

Perhaps you miss the point that logic doesn't fail just because you say it fails. Clearly you're unwilling to outline how my view is wrong. In that situation I'm not sure what sort of response you expect.

I don't think it helps people to tell them to ignore the big picture and only explore the minute details in isolation. Yes in isolation 2 cents per point is at the expensive end. Yes people need to be careful to make sure that all of their points are not earned at that cost. BUT it is equally true that this one issue is mitigated in the average cost of all points, and by the value obtained from redemption of points. So I will reject your claim of a logic failure for considering the totality of the situation over one minor factor in isolation. As best I can see ignoring the big picture does not help.

As for aggressive and defensive, you asked why people take points on fuel. I've given my reasons. I really don't know why you asked the question if you're just going to tell people they're wrong. That's my reason, accept it is my reason and move on.

 

[Mark3000]

Perhaps you miss the point that logic doesn't fail just because you say it fails. Clearly you're unwilling to outline how my view is wrong.

Oh but I was willing to outline how I thought you were wrong. What makes you think "Clearly you are unwilling" I was willing and able

Each transaction is independent. Just because you get 10000 points for free, doesn't mean buying another 240 points at 2 cents each is necessarily a good deal. It doesn't mean that the points cost you 0.05 c each, they cost 2 c each. Now if you redeem for F and get 8 c per point value then it's really worth it. But this thread is about the value of buying points for 2 c each and not about other points you get elsewhere or the points you get by using Amex etc as Burmans and others have eloquently explained above as those are independent events

I don't think it helps people to tell them to ignore the big picture and only explore the minute details in isolation. Yes in isolation 2 cents per point is at the expensive end. Yes people need to be careful to make sure that all of their points are not earned at that cost. BUT it is equally true that this one issue is mitigated in the average cost of all points, and by the value obtained from redemption of points. So I will reject your claim of a logic failure for considering the totality of the situation over one minor factor in isolation. As best I can see ignoring the big picture does not help.

As for aggressive and defensive, you asked why people take points on fuel. I've given my reasons. I really don't know why you asked the question if you're just going to tell people they're wrong. That's my reason, accept it is my reason and move on.

You are trying to use the concept of dollar cost averaging, which applies to stock market investments over time, when the price is fluctuating beyond your control. By your logic, if I collect 1 million points per year for free, and could then buy another thousand points at 10 cents each it would be worth doing, because that cost is "mitigated in the average cost of points" by looking at the "big picture" the average cost per point is extremely low.

"Considering the totality of the situation" does not change whether the one minor factor in isolation is logical or not. They are independent and separate transactions.

Some people had great answers for why they take points, eg work pays for fuel, the cost of fuel is tax deductible. They are perfectly logical and great reasons. Redeeming F flights for 8 c per point value is a great reason too. All I'm saying is that "because an extra $5 per week doesn't mean much to me" and "because my average cost of points is low" aren't entirely logical reasons.

 

[medhead]

If we really want to Delve into it, perhaps we should consider the question of whether Woolworths, in the goodness of their hearts, is really giving away 4 cents per litre for free, bless their cotton socks.

 

[medhead]

All I'm saying is that "because an extra $5 per week doesn't mean much to me" and "because my average cost of points is low" aren't entirely logical reasons.

No, you said the logic failed and was wrong.

You are trying to use the concept of dollar cost averaging, which applies to stock market investments over time, when the price is fluctuating beyond your control. By your logic, if I collect 1 million points per year for free, and could then buy another thousand points at 10 cents each it would be worth doing, because that cost is "mitigated in the average cost of points" by looking at the "big picture" the average cost per point is extremely low

That is an incorrect assumption about what I'm saying. Could buy another thousand points implies a choice, an option. I need to buy fuel. Yes, agreed that might be a lifestyle choice on my part, but my lifestyle choice requires me to buy fuel. So it is not a question of I "could" buy another 1000 points. It is a matter of I am going to buy fuel. The choice I make is about where I buy fuel, and if I do buy fuel at woolworths then I take the points because it has no material impact on the average cost of my points. Averaging is a concept used in a number of situations. That a concept is used for the share market doesn't mean I can't apply a similar concept elsewhere.

 

[Mark3000]

Yes exactly, this has nothing to do with your choice to buy fuel or not.

it is a choice to buy points for 2 cents each

I'll let you go on your merry way buying your 2 cent points which turn into a good deal because you have to buy fuel anyway and all of your other points are cheap

 

[burmans]

Perhaps you miss the point that logic doesn't fail just because you say it fails. Clearly you're unwilling to outline how my view is wrong. In that situation I'm not sure what sort of response you expect.

I don't think it helps people to tell them to ignore the big picture and only explore the minute details in isolation. Yes in isolation 2 cents per point is at the expensive end. Yes people need to be careful to make sure that all of their points are not earned at that cost. BUT it is equally true that this one issue is mitigated in the average cost of all points, and by the value obtained from redemption of points. So I will reject your claim of a logic failure for considering the totality of the situation over one minor factor in isolation. As best I can see ignoring the big picture does not help.

... one last point to make.

The thread title is
Caltex - QF points instead of fuel discount


This is a very strict comparison of taking QF or taking a full discount. Its not a question about burn or other alternatives to earn.

Yes, it is true there are other ways of getting cheaper points but it has nothing to do with this particular comparison. That fact medhead is keen to average up his costs and I want to average down, is interesting but I would have to agree somewhat irrelevant (and as I am guilty of this too this is not a dig at medhead).
The value you get out of those point is also strictly off topic for the title (which is a specific earn question). The fact I can get good value out of points in no way makes me want to be prepared to spend more on getting them but clearly others disagree.

Personally I think we should just agree to disagree. The fact that some posters here seem prepared to pay much more for their points than I would is really their own decision, despite any opinions I may have of that behaviour.

 

[medhead]

Yes exactly, this has nothing to do with your choice to buy fuel or not.

it is a choice to buy points for 2 cents each

I'll let you go on your merry way buying your 2 cent points which turn into a good deal because you have to buy fuel anyway and all of your other points are cheap

No it is not about a choice to buy points for 2 cents each. That is your limit constraint, something which does not apply to me.

Perhaps you should've just accepted my reasons about 4 posts ago instead of trying to prove me wrong. The world is a better place by not requiring us to all be little clones.

... one last point to make.

The thread title is
Caltex - QF points instead of fuel discount


This is a very strict comparison of taking QF or taking a full discount. Its not a question about burn or other alternatives to earn.

Yes, it is true there are other ways of getting cheaper points but it has nothing to do with this particular comparison. That fact medhead is keen to average up his costs and I want to average down, is interesting but I would have to agree somewhat irrelevant (and as I am guilty of this too this is not a dig at medhead).
The value you get out of those point is also strictly off topic for the title (which is a specific earn question). The fact I can get good value out of points in no way makes me want to be prepared to spend more on getting them but clearly others disagree.

Personally I think we should just agree to disagree. The fact that some posters here seem prepared to pay much more for their points than I would is really their own decision, despite any opinions I may have of that behaviour.

...

My reasons for taking points are informed by all of those other factors, which makes them entirely relevant. There is so much more involved in this stuff than looking at each point in isolation.

Another who probably should have stopped trying to prove people wrong a number of posts ago. I have certainly never asked you or anyone else to agree with me. I'm really not sure why there are all these attempts to make me change my opinion.

 

[burmans]

No it is not about a choice to buy points for 2 cents each. That is your limit constraint, something which does not apply to me.

Perhaps you should've just accepted my reasons about 4 posts ago instead of trying to prove me wrong. The world is a better place by not requiring us to all be little clones.



...

My reasons for taking points are informed by all of those other factors, which makes them entirely relevant. There is so much more involved in this stuff than looking at each point in isolation.

Another who probably should have stopped trying to prove people wrong a number of posts ago. I have certainly never asked you or anyone else to agree with me. I'm really not sure why there are all these attempts to make me change my opinion.

Yep, as noted if you want to "buy" those points by opting for points over 4c/litres off (at a rate even you have admitted is at the expensive end) then please feel free.

 

[medhead]

Yep, as noted if you want to "buy" those points by opting for points over 4c/litres off (at a rate even you have admitted is at the expensive end) then please feel free.

More words put in my mouth. Build a bridge and get over it.

 

[burmans]

Yes in isolation 2 cents per point is at the expensive end. Yes people need to be careful to make sure that all of their points are not earned at that cost.

Its your words, suggest you go and start building yourself.

 

[medhead]

Its your words, suggest you go and start building yourself.

Yet again you can't move on. Yet again you're going out of your way to attack me. So much for agree to disagree. Taking one sentence out of context, in isolation, does misrepresent my previous post.

 

[burmans]

Yet again you can't move on. Yet again you're going out of your way to attack me. So much for agree to disagree. Taking one sentence out of context, in isolation, does misrepresent my previous post.

Yeah, whatever. I've moved on.