Buying Australian Products

[DaveB]

With the news this week all about losing another great 'Aussie icon' in Holden and also the lesser reported closing down of Kelloggs NSW Central Coast operations moving to SE Asia, it seems to me that consumers, me anyway, are too easily confused about the degree of local content we are buying.
The green and gold kangaroo logo managed by Australian Made Campaign Limited (AMCL), a not-for-profit company, under contract from the Federal Government doesn't go far enough and is somewhat confusing having as their main headings:
Australian Made - The product has been manufactured here (not just packaged) and 50% or more of the cost of making it can be attributed to Australian materials and/or production processes.

Australian Grown - All of the product's significant ingredients are grown in Australia, and all, or nearly all of the processing has been carried out in Australia.

Product of Australia - All of the product's significant ingredients come from Australia, and all, or nearly all of the manufacturing or processing has been carried out in Australia.

A related issue is the degree to which we are being dominated by OS based multinationals who through various means transfer profits to an OS based head office. The level of Australian ownership and where the company is domiciled for taxation purposes could also be incorporated into a new, more simplified system of recognising Australian based companies.

I would like to see the Kangaroo logo system include a star ranking system which awards companies from one to five stars depending on the level of local content. It could go something along the lines of:

1 star – product is packaged in Australia. Say under the star - Australian Packaged;

2 stars – product is also processed in Australia. Say under the stars 'Australian Processed', not Australian Made which is currently confusing as it infers also Australian Grown which is incorrect;

3 stars – product also uses Australian produce. Continue to use the words 'Australian Grown';

4 stars – the company is also based in Australia for taxation purposes. Company would have to have it's head office domiciled in Australia to also include the words 'Product of Australia;

5 stars – the company is also majority Australia owned. A new ranking along the lines of 'Proudly Australian' could be included under the 5 stars.


This system would be fairly simple to implement and hopefully eliminate the confusing methods (in my mind anyway) we currently have in attempting to support local companies.
I understand the current system is voluntary so there is no onus on companies to highlight the source of their products, hence the packaging fine print. All overseas products sold in Australia should therefore be required to state on their packaging, in the same position that the Kangaroo logo is positioned, similar wording of the product's origins.

 

[craven morehead]

Electrolux factory in Orange also to be closed by 2016

 

[cove]

DaveB your system gets me dressed up like a middle eastern colonel /general with those 5 stars.
Does the public really care?
Naturally we hope so!

 

[MEL_Traveller]

DaveB your system gets me dressed up like a middle eastern colonel /general with those 5 stars.
Does the public really care?
Naturally we hope so!

yes we care - but that is assuming that in the products we are comparing the Aussie made product is actually what we want, and secondly, of equal or better quality.

This is the thing that gets me about the cars. This is not the workers' fault - but if there is no local demand the question must be why not? Are they not making the products we demand? Why is it that for a long time, the perception (perhaps reality) was that Australian made cars were behind some of their international peers in regards to safety? Look at side curtain air bags... they took a while to filter down to Australian cars if I understand it correctly. So if i wanted that safety feature i had to buy another brand. If I didn't care about the side airbags, then I could have bought another foreign car much cheaper.

So why didn't the Aussie product compete effectively?

Same with an airline. If a foreign airline can spend an extra couple of dollars on providing a better meal. If a foreign airline can lead the way in terms of in-flight entertainment, of flat beds, or timetabling, or simply because of lower wages they can carry more crew (= more service for pax) then why would I pay more for less with an Australian carrier? Admittedly Australian airlines have a huge advantage with their safety record, but if i have four flights a day to my destination on a competitor - my hands might be tied.

Australian is great - but it must equal or better another product for me to pay more. I'm not going to fork out just because they're australian owned.

 

[TonyHancock]

The green and gold kangaroo logo managed by Australian Made Campaign Limited (AMCL), a not-for-profit company, under contract from the Federal Government doesn't go far enough and is somewhat confusing having as their main headings:
Australian Made - The product has been manufactured here (not just packaged) and 50% or more of the cost of making it can be attributed to Australian materials and/or production processes.

Australian Grown - All of the product's significant ingredients are grown in Australia, and all, or nearly all of the processing has been carried out in Australia.

Product of Australia - All of the product's significant ingredients come from Australia, and all, or nearly all of the manufacturing or processing has been carried out in Australia.

Slightly off topic but where does the money go? The licence fee is not exactly cheap, so how they operate as not for profit is beyond me. Maybe if they actually had to live in the real world they would come up with an effective plan.

As an aside, under the scheme you have presented a 5 star "Australian Owned Company" might actually contribute next to nothing to the economy. Ultimately it is about investment and tax. From my limited investigation the whole Australian Made Campaign Limited business is nothing short of a rort.

I sound negative but I would like nothing more than a strong Australian manufacturing economy but the reality is the majority talk a good game but when it comes down to it they:

a) Buy to suit their needs i.e on price
and
b) do not actually want to pay the necessary income tax that is needed to get us out of the current mess

I lean neither to the left or the right and don't know what the real answer is to the the decline in manufacturing. I used to be dead set against subsidies but I look ahead with much foreboding to the death of the automative manufacturing sector.

So why didn't the Aussie product compete effectively?

The exchange rate over the last couple of years or so has been a killer. Any industry with high labour costs has suffered......even mining more recently. (Despite the protection associated with it - i.e. you can only mine for something where the resource is.)

 

[MEL_Traveller]

The exchange rate over the last couple of years or so has been a killer. Any industry with high labour costs has suffered......even mining more recently. (Despite the protection associated with it - i.e. you can only mine for something where the resource is.)

my point was why didn't the Aussie products compete in terms of quality and innovation? While the rest of the world was making Smart cars, electric cars, or cars with advanced safety features... what did we get served here? The same product year in and year out, with perhaps a minor bit of cosmetic update? (ok, probably advances in fuel efficiency and engine performance).

 

[cove]

We have been waiting for four months for 2 cars from Holden. Australian made to our spec seems to take an incredible period of time to get produced.

 

[Simo]

My personal policy is to buy local but if not available to buy state based or buy Australian made.

Buying local produce is easy.

 

[Mal]

We live in a global economy. Companies will make something where it makes the best sense to them.
Customers are finicky. Very few actually practice what they preach (ie. I only buy Australian ... Unless Chinese equivalent is cheaper).
Then there are the questions like 'should Australia actually manufacture goods?' Or should money be invested in other areas that advance the economy.
It is very complex.

 

[cove]

We could make Australia a part time retirement destination for well off foreigners who want to leave their polluted part of the world to play golf, go swimming at the beach and go fishing and hiking. All we would have to do is up the GST to a level so we can balance the State Budgets everywhere.

 

[DaveB]

I don’t particularly care buying goods typically assuming when I go to stores like Bunnings that the products are all sourced from China.
I do however take a keen interest when buying food and will happily pay 20% or more extra to ensure groceries are sourced and processed in Australia, particularly over many parts of Asia and Eastern Europe.
The Kellogg’s pack in my pantry, despite its large size, displays a very small Australian logo which I need my reading glasses to confirm it states ‘Australian Made’ and not the higher level ‘Australian Grown’ which I was not aware of till now. The 50% cost requirement is no guarantee that the majority of the food components are not sourced or processed OS.
I should have investigated further the details of the Australian Made Company and agree their licence fee of 1% on the sale of goods carrying the logo is a rip off. Tellingly, I could not access annual reports from their website so unable to say where the income goes, no doubt staffing costs with a significant proportion in executive salary and benefits.

Dick Smith’s food company sends his profits from his food company to charity and note he does not use the ‘Australian Made’ logo probably for this reason. His company may be able to improve on the confusing and expensive system currently in place.
[FONT=&amp]I saw a star rating simplify the current system and also cover taxation and ownership issues currently not being addressed. A company would not be able to jump any steps, i.e. my own company could not use the logo if it imported the goods from China.[/FONT]

 

[cove]

We shop at Masters because the 5% off Woolies gift cards work there. We supply many Australian made (5 Star items) to them and many others in Australia.
I will be disappointed when Ford and Holden are gone from Australia but that was too hard and too expensive to keep them here. There has to be a limit to subsidies.

 

[banger2]

yes we care - but that is assuming that in the products we are comparing the Aussie made product is actually what we want, and secondly, of equal or better quality.

This is the thing that gets me about the cars. This is not the workers' fault - but if there is no local demand the question must be why not? Are they not making the products we demand? Why is it that for a long time, the perception (perhaps reality) was that Australian made cars were behind some of their international peers in regards to safety? Look at side curtain air bags... they took a while to filter down to Australian cars if I understand it correctly. So if i wanted that safety feature i had to buy another brand. If I didn't care about the side airbags, then I could have bought another foreign car much cheaper.

So why didn't the Aussie product compete effectively?

Same with an airline. If a foreign airline can spend an extra couple of dollars on providing a better meal. If a foreign airline can lead the way in terms of in-flight entertainment, of flat beds, or timetabling, or simply because of lower wages they can carry more crew (= more service for pax) then why would I pay more for less with an Australian carrier? Admittedly Australian airlines have a huge advantage with their safety record, but if i have four flights a day to my destination on a competitor - my hands might be tied.

Australian is great - but it must equal or better another product for me to pay more. I'm not going to fork out just because they're australian owned.

I care too, and echo your final line, re quality. Usually the products value is more important than its price.

Just wanted to add some comments re your cars comment. I don't work for Holden, but I do work for a Holden retailer. As far as I know, the Commodore (manufactured here in AUS since its late 1970s inception) has always been and continues to be in the top 10 vehicles sold in Australia. The Cruze, since being manufactured in Aus (I think since 2011) also has always been top 10. For the Toyota stable, Aurion and Camry is at least very frequently if not almost always in the top 10. In the Ford camp, the Falcon until fairly recently has always been in the top 10, along with the Territory visiting the top 10. My point is mainly if these are vehicles are not what people want to buy...... Consider there are over 60 brands of motor vehicles being sold in AUS today (how many models / variants that equates to is mind boggling!). With 23-24 million people in AUS, and around 1 million new car sales a year......3 brands out of 60+ selling Aussie made cars all in the top 10 sales per month.....

In terms of safety....I can only speak of the Commodore without doing some research and going from my knowledge and recollections....the Commodore was one of the first affordable cars in Australia to offer airbags and ABS in 1993. In 2006, the first fully Australian developed car was released, and excluding the base model, had side airbags as standard...2 years later all models had it standard. Much is made in the promotion of safety in cars, and ANCAP is promoted. I'm confident, especially relative to price, all Aussie built cars from the mid 90s onwards have scored very well for safety in ANCAP.

So IMO I wouldn't see demand and safety as the main reasons for the termination of vehicle manufacturing in AUS (I'm sure Toyota will also go). Of all countries manufacturing cars, Australian manufacturers receives the lowest government assistance ($$) per car. Compare AUS to the US market.....US 300+million ppl with 13+million sales annually and I understand around 40 brands.... AUS has 23+million ppl with 1million sales annually and over 60 brands. I would have a guess AUS has higher labour costs than most countries manufacturing vehicles, and any company will generally tell you the highest cost in its business is the labour.

Sadly, I would think many manufacturing businesses in AUS past and present face similar types of challenges, especially where they compete directly against foreign product in AUS.

Im proudly Australian, I proudly support Aussie stuff where I can (and that's difficult determining what parts of the product actually come from AUS!!)....but sadly, I cant buy frozen broccoli in my local Woolies anymore, even if I am happy to pay more for it...that just sums up where we are and where we are headed with manufacturing and "Australian" products....

 

[MEL_Traveller]

In terms of safety....I can only speak of the Commodore without doing some research and going from my knowledge and recollections....the Commodore was one of the first affordable cars in Australia to offer airbags and ABS in 1993. In 2006, the first fully Australian developed car was released, and excluding the base model, had side airbags as standard...2 years later all models had it standard. Much is made in the promotion of safety in cars, and ANCAP is promoted. I'm confident, especially relative to price, all Aussie built cars from the mid 90s onwards have scored very well for safety in ANCAP.

If they do (offer such good safety) then I didn't know about it!

Since I wrote my earlier comments I had the opportunity to discuss this issue with a bit of a car buff. They were saying that the Commodore, $ for $, was a better car than the equivalent BMW. And for 1/3 the cost.

But again... I didn't know!

The car buff was saying 'well if you had been in the market to buy a car you could have bought a magazine and you would have learned pretty quickly'. But again... I didn't know!

Volvo has a reputation for safety. But I didn't associate the same with Aussie cars. So - where does the fault lie? Should Aussie cars have promoted that more heavily? (Does it even matter to most people?)

Linking back to another thread... the 'buy Australian made' - when I get into a taxi in Australia what do I generally (not always) see? A run down, stinky and creaky vehicle who's brakes squeal and have limited passenger room in the back... what cars are they? Fords and Holdens! Is that a good advetisement for the brand? Not for me!

But maybe that's just me?

 

[cove]

We buy at least six Holden Commodores per year mostly to run on gas seeing they are high mileage rep cars. Local cars for local conditions will be lost to us when GM close up here in Australia.

 

[banger2]

If they do (offer such good safety) then I didn't know about it!

Since I wrote my earlier comments I had the opportunity to discuss this issue with a bit of a car buff. They were saying that the Commodore, $ for $, was a better car than the equivalent BMW. And for 1/3 the cost.

But again... I didn't know!

The car buff was saying 'well if you had been in the market to buy a car you could have bought a magazine and you would have learned pretty quickly'. But again... I didn't know!

Volvo has a reputation for safety. But I didn't associate the same with Aussie cars. So - where does the fault lie? Should Aussie cars have promoted that more heavily? (Does it even matter to most people?)

Linking back to another thread... the 'buy Australian made' - when I get into a taxi in Australia what do I generally (not always) see? A run down, stinky and creaky vehicle who's brakes squeal and have limited passenger room in the back... what cars are they? Fords and Holdens! Is that a good advetisement for the brand? Not for me!

But maybe that's just me?

Your point is well taken...and shows the importance of effective marketing. I have to say, Ford in particular IMO does a woeful job at advertising their products! If you've seen the new Kuga ad, you will know it has a boot than can be operated without touch by a wave of your foot but not much else(??).....which sort of highlights my comments, and certainly validates yours! Its somewhat a shame that Holden seems to have embarked on a different type of advertising for the new Aussie made (although discontinued in 2017) Commodore which I think is fantastic (both the car and the ad). Too little too late?

Re taxis, I agree too...its a pitfall of having your vehicle commonly used in such a prominent way. Interestingly, almost all taxis are now Fords (at least in NSW), and Holden has for a long time been sales leader infront of the Ford (large car). Coincidence? But again validates your comment to some extent. However, I am sure you take much better care of your vehicle (assuming you have your own) than a taxi, much better servicing and replacement of worn parts than a taxi, and I am 100% certain you do many less KM in your car! Curious, do you think a BMW treated in the same manner as a Ford/Holden taxi would fare better? An interesting aside....many of our Commodores for sale are ex rental cars...usually 1-3yrs old and around 60000km (I bet most people can imagine how well rentals are driven!). My current drive car is such a car, and it drives great, no rattles or squeaks, and in the 3 years Ive been using such cars (usually 1 different vehicle per month), never ever had a breakdown. Tyres on rentals, however, are a different issue! Buy cheap and thats what you get!

I guess also the incremental improvement in vehicle quality for the Aussie made product perhaps has come too slowly..and had an impact?

This specific part of the topic is very close to me, but moreover, I am saddened by the demise of so many jobs and such a long manufacturing industry in particular, but also in other sectors of AUS industry. (A simplistic bitter view from me....its fantastic that we now employ so many overseas workers and improve their standards of living above our own). Anyway...apparently change is a good thing!

PS...anyone reading this, for clarification...Holden is not shutting down, they are simply moving to a fully imported vehicle range as of 2017. I cant tell you the number of friends asking me if Holden is closing and Im losing my job (many in the manufacturing and associated side is however ). One thing many of my colleagues agree Holden hasn't gotten that message out clearly enough yet.

 

[AdMEL]

I care too, and echo your final line, re quality. Usually the products value is more important than its price.

Just wanted to add some comments re your cars comment. I don't work for Holden, but I do work for a Holden retailer. As far as I know, the Commodore (manufactured here in AUS since its late 1970s inception) has always been and continues to be in the top 10 vehicles sold in Australia. The Cruze, since being manufactured in Aus (I think since 2011) also has always been top 10. For the Toyota stable, Aurion and Camry is at least very frequently if not almost always in the top 10. In the Ford camp, the Falcon until fairly recently has always been in the top 10, along with the Territory visiting the top 10. My point is mainly if these are vehicles are not what people want to buy...... Consider there are over 60 brands of motor vehicles being sold in AUS today (how many models / variants that equates to is mind boggling!). With 23-24 million people in AUS, and around 1 million new car sales a year......3 brands out of 60+ selling Aussie made cars all in the top 10 sales per month.....

In terms of safety....I can only speak of the Commodore without doing some research and going from my knowledge and recollections....the Commodore was one of the first affordable cars in Australia to offer airbags and ABS in 1993. In 2006, the first fully Australian developed car was released, and excluding the base model, had side airbags as standard...2 years later all models had it standard. Much is made in the promotion of safety in cars, and ANCAP is promoted. I'm confident, especially relative to price, all Aussie built cars from the mid 90s onwards have scored very well for safety in ANCAP.

So IMO I wouldn't see demand and safety as the main reasons for the termination of vehicle manufacturing in AUS (I'm sure Toyota will also go). Of all countries manufacturing cars, Australian manufacturers receives the lowest government assistance ($$) per car. Compare AUS to the US market.....US 300+million ppl with 13+million sales annually and I understand around 40 brands.... AUS has 23+million ppl with 1million sales annually and over 60 brands. I would have a guess AUS has higher labour costs than most countries manufacturing vehicles, and any company will generally tell you the highest cost in its business is the labour.

Sadly, I would think many manufacturing businesses in AUS past and present face similar types of challenges, especially where they compete directly against foreign product in AUS.

Im proudly Australian, I proudly support Aussie stuff where I can (and that's difficult determining what parts of the product actually come from AUS!!)....but sadly, I cant buy frozen broccoli in my local Woolies anymore, even if I am happy to pay more for it...that just sums up where we are and where we are headed with manufacturing and "Australian" products....

Very well said! Whilst I don't work in anything to do wih the car industry, I'm a car buff (despite not owning a car!) and I entirely agree. A couple of points of further information:

When the VE Holden Commodore was released in 2006, it had Electronic Stability Control across the range and was one of the first cars to do so in Australia.

Further, Holden was instrumental in developing the airbags we still use today in almost every car, in the early 1990's. Most airbags at the time were large as drivers in the US didn't wear seat belts, however they weren't suitable for use with seatbelt wearing occupants. Holden was instrumental in developing smaller airbags that are still used today.

Holden has been at the forefront of cr safety in affordable cars for a long time.

If they do (offer such good safety) then I didn't know about it!

Since I wrote my earlier comments I had the opportunity to discuss this issue with a bit of a car buff. They were saying that the Commodore, $ for $, was a better car than the equivalent BMW. And for 1/3 the cost.

But again... I didn't know!

The car buff was saying 'well if you had been in the market to buy a car you could have bought a magazine and you would have learned pretty quickly'. But again... I didn't know!

Volvo has a reputation for safety. But I didn't associate the same with Aussie cars. So - where does the fault lie? Should Aussie cars have promoted that more heavily? (Does it even matter to most people?)

Linking back to another thread... the 'buy Australian made' - when I get into a taxi in Australia what do I generally (not always) see? A run down, stinky and creaky vehicle who's brakes squeal and have limited passenger room in the back... what cars are they? Fords and Holdens! Is that a good advetisement for the brand? Not for me!

But maybe that's just me?

Your point is well taken...and shows the importance of effective marketing. I have to say, Ford in particular IMO does a woeful job at advertising their products! If you've seen the new Kuga ad, you will know it has a boot than can be operated without touch by a wave of your foot but not much else(??).....which sort of highlights my comments, and certainly validates yours! Its somewhat a shame that Holden seems to have embarked on a different type of advertising for the new Aussie made (although discontinued in 2017) Commodore which I think is fantastic (both the car and the ad). Too little too late?

Re taxis, I agree too...its a pitfall of having your vehicle commonly used in such a prominent way. Interestingly, almost all taxis are now Fords (at least in NSW), and Holden has for a long time been sales leader infront of the Ford (large car). Coincidence? But again validates your comment to some extent. However, I am sure you take much better care of your vehicle (assuming you have your own) than a taxi, much better servicing and replacement of worn parts than a taxi, and I am 100% certain you do many less KM in your car! Curious, do you think a BMW treated in the same manner as a Ford/Holden taxi would fare better? An interesting aside....many of our Commodores for sale are ex rental cars...usually 1-3yrs old and around 60000km (I bet most people can imagine how well rentals are driven!). My current drive car is such a car, and it drives great, no rattles or squeaks, and in the 3 years Ive been using such cars (usually 1 different vehicle per month), never ever had a breakdown. Tyres on rentals, however, are a different issue! Buy cheap and thats what you get!

I guess also the incremental improvement in vehicle quality for the Aussie made product perhaps has come too slowly..and had an impact?

This specific part of the topic is very close to me, but moreover, I am saddened by the demise of so many jobs and such a long manufacturing industry in particular, but also in other sectors of AUS industry. (A simplistic bitter view from me....its fantastic that we now employ so many overseas workers and improve their standards of living above our own). Anyway...apparently change is a good thing!

PS...anyone reading this, for clarification...Holden is not shutting down, they are simply moving to a fully imported vehicle range as of 2017. I cant tell you the number of friends asking me if Holden is closing and Im losing my job (many in the manufacturing and associated side is however ). One thing many of my colleagues agree Holden hasn't gotten that message out clearly enough yet.

Almost all taxis in Victoria are Ford falcons too.

Whilst I agree on the surface taxis aren't a glowing reference for Falcons, the reality is they actually are a good reference, since taxis are driven up to 1,000,000 km in their 6 or 7 year life!

So the average taxi has done 4-500,000 km and is 3-4 years old!

The fact that Falcons last that long is testament to how good they are.

There isn't any other car that would stand up to that sort of punishment! I've been in the odd Toyota Camry or Aurion taxi and they are much worse than Falcons when they have done a couple of hundred thousand km.

Have a look at the reviews of the Chevrolet SS (Commodore SS-V) is receiving in the US at the moment - its being compared to a BMW 550i. Holden benchmarked the BMW 5 series when they designed the VE Commodore that was released in 2006.

And the Falcon is just as good.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

So the average taxi has done 4-500,000 km and is 3-4 years old!

The fact that Falcons last that long is testament to how good they are.

There isn't any other car that would stand up to that sort of punishment!

I don't know but aren't taxis all over the world subject to the same mileage? VWs in China get some pretty tough punishment. mercedes in europe. black cabs? Maybe all of those are replaced more often?

 

[Muzfly]

We used to buy 8 Commodores per year as Rep's cars. The fuel burn was a huge cost. Running on gas was not really a solution/option as most of the miles were country miles so getting gas became an issue. We switched to VW Amorok dual cabs. Cost a little more to buy, but no FBT. Reps love them and being diesel the fuel burn cost are way lower. The FBT issue aside, I cannot help but think that if Commodore had a decent diesel engine they'd still be around.......

 

[cove]

Yes the BP gas system failed at two places so it was a tow to get to the next working gas supplier. Look up St. George on a QLD map. That is the downside of an all gas Holden.
Lucky there was a towing service.