Business Class

[gillgirl]

Hi - I'm new to this so any help appreciated.
About to take a 'trip of a lifetime" to UK from Sydney and treating ourselves to Business Class and stopovers - have read the skytrax reviews on business class airlines and although our travel agent has suggested some of them - the reviews are coming up 'bad' - any suggestions of a reasonably good business class airline out there?
Etihad and emirates which have been suggested are not getting too good reviews - whereas although sing is good I've been there so often wanted to try something different - can do qatar as they don't fly out of sydney -......thanks in advance for any suggestions / thoughts.............

 

[Travel Guru]

I've flown Etihad business and would fly them again any day of the week.

Hands down the best inflight menu and their staff were brilliant.

Really good seat product, and they should have upgraded again to the new seat by now (I know the new First Class Suites are operating on the AUH-SYD leg, so fly J and pray for an upgrade).

Can't comment on Emirates, but given a choice wouldn't hesitate to go back and fly Etihad again.

If you have time, Abu Dhabi is definitely worth a stop, and make sure you at least have dinner at Emirates Palace, its magic.

TG

 

[drron]

I wouldn't rule out Qatar just because they dont fly out of Sydney-qatar will get you to MEL on DJ first.An acquaintance though bought a ticket on Qatar from BNE and they sent him via KUL on MH.
Most of us outside SYD and MEL have to put up with connecting flights.

 

[ozmille]

SYD BA to BKK couple of days BKK
BKK AY to HEL couple of days there and then short hop to LHR

AY J fares comne in at around 6900

 

[docjames]

Online reviews are always somewhat problematic as there is a huge reporting bias (ie. people are far more likely to write a review on a bad experience than a good one.).

I'd consider a couple of factors:

1. Any J class will be better if you're used to Y.
2. Some are better than others. I'd start by considering the "hard" product (ie. the seats, the lounges, the checkin benefits), then once you've narrowed down, move to the "subjective" part, mostly around food/beverage/service/other.

For most, EK or EY are quite acceptable (everyone can have a horror flight, even in J). Personally I'd happily fly either (probably leaning towards EY). You could always try VAustralia to AUH, with onward from AUH to Europe. And vice-versa on the return.

AY have an advantage in pricing, but I dont believe their "hard" product is at the cutting edge (vs QF 380 say, although akin to QF 744 product).

 

[MAX_1]

Have used Emirates several times during last few years. Travelled J and found service and food top class.
The Emirates lounge rates as one of the best I have used. The Emirates Hotel in Dubai that we were sent to rest awaiting our connection to Egypt was great.
Have heard great reports about Ethiad but at this stage have no reason to change from Emirates.

 

[Dalescott]

Used to fly Emirates, and have flown Etihad. As I fly out of Melbourne, I can't say much about Sydney. But Emirates use A380's out of Sydney so it should be good, Etihad is just great in Business, and pretty good in Economy. But Singapore is the best without any doubt.

 

[Major]

Have flown Etihad J several times, their food and service is outstanding. Emirates are also very good and certainly they have the best lounges I have been in anywhere. Their lounge in Dubai is just mind boggling.

 

[adampenrith]

Let me put a spanner in the works

GARUDA

Out of Mel or Syd - (Mel has the easier transfer) you can either fly via Jakarta to Amsterdam or via Denpasar (Bali) then to Jakarta and Amsterdam.

The only issue is the long transit at Jakarta =- the lounge is very good - or you can overnight at a aiport hotel - recommend the Sheraton its about a 5 min ride from the airport.

Or stop in Bali and have a few days of pleasure.

Garuda is much aligned - but an awesome airline these days. The NEW business class seat is a lie flat and I find it more comfortable than the Emirates version.

Cabin Crew and awesome the food and drinks great. The only stange event is not being able to get anything stronger than a Beer in the Business Class lounges in Indonesia....

they even have a ff program that Australians can now belong to - and the fares are pretty reasonably priced

 

[trooper]

:mrgreen: AFAIK Garuda is not aligned with anyone...

They have however been much maligned in the past... it's true...

(Happens to me all the time when I type fast!)

 

[Homer]

Let me put a spanner in the works

GARUDA

Yep, that would be my concern with Garuda too - in fact if someone left just one spanner in the works it would probably be an improvement in their standards.

I was talking about flights to Bali with my TA yesterday and I asked whether there was an alternative to JQ. She sheepishly replied “Garuda”. Then we both laughed.

 

[drmikki]

I didn't realise the EU ban on Garuda had been lifted... oh well, you learn something new every day!

Was that a serious suggestion by the previous poster or not?

Was it tongue in cheek or just pure coincidence that this is coming the day after the ATSB released a final report into a Garuda nearmiss at DRW in 2008? http://www.atsb.gov.au/media/3150743/ao2008080.pdf
Near disaster for 737 landing at Darwin | Travel | NT News | Darwin, Northern Territory, Australia | ntnews.com.au

Although they seem to have a plan to turn things around, including plans to join skyteam and aiming to become a 5* airline, I don't know that I would be happy with them yet... too much history too recently for me.

 

[ozmille]

AY have an advantage in pricing, but I dont believe their "hard" product is at the cutting edge (vs QF 380 say, although akin to QF 744 product).

Have you tried their new fuly flat J product? I have been able to sleep very well the 4 times I have taken them BKK to HEL.

 

[docjames]

Have you tried their new fuly flat J product? I have been able to sleep very well the 4 times I have taken them BKK to HEL.

Fair call, I didnt realise they had updated their product (was slowly being rolled out and was hit/miss although unlike QF 744 v 380 it was hard to tell which flights would have which product).

 

[pauly7]

Fair call, I didnt realise they had updated their product (was slowly being rolled out and was hit/miss although unlike QF 744 v 380 it was hard to tell which flights would have which product).

Yes it's hard to check, only some AY A330s have been updated. You can check via the seat map...

 

[MEL_Traveller]

Yep, that would be my concern with Garuda too - in fact if someone left just one spanner in the works it would probably be an improvement in their standards.

I was talking about flights to Bali with my TA yesterday and I asked whether there was an alternative to JQ. She sheepishly replied “Garuda”. Then we both laughed.

why would both of you would laugh?

From many ports in Australia the garuda flights are perfectly timed to give you an early afternoon arrival into Bali - instead of a Jetstar 'close-to-midnight' arrival. You have a whole extra day's holiday and are sipping drinks by the beach while the jetstar flight is not even in the air (and saves a wasted day's accommodation costs).

I have also been to Bali a couple of times last year and a couple of jetstar flights were showing significant delays (several hours or more), with the return departure to MEL going at something like 3am. Long wait at the airport.

GA is a full service airline. Good food and drinks FOC. Their new product is angled lie-flat in biz on their A333's and full flat on their A332's. Economy also revamped with PTVs on the 332s at least.

The airbus aircraft are leased and have too comply with super strict maintenance requirements as set out by the lessors. And the EU ban has been lifted in respect of GA.

Yes they have some safety issues. No one is denying that. But a recent story in The Age (on line, and no doubt syndicated from other sources) about 'dangerous airlines' put Thai Airways at number 9, and Garuda at number 10. Yet i don't see anyone 'laughing' at the suggestion of taking Thai. Why is that?

And yes there is the report of the near miss in Darwin, but the link to the Jetstar pilot texting while the aircraft was landing hasn't been posted to provide a balanced view. Or the link to the Singapore Airlines take-off from a closed runway, which resulted, unlike the Garuda report here, in actual deaths.

The comments on skytrax about garuda are overwhelmingly positive.

I guess I just don't get this Garuda bashing.

 

[Homer]

why would both of you would laugh?

I can’t be certain of why she laughed. I laughed because of Garuda’s history of plane crashes. My TA knows my reluctance to even fly on “second-tier” carriers, let alone a carrier with Garuda’s reputation. Perhaps that’s why she laughed.

From many ports in Australia the garuda flights are perfectly timed to give you an early afternoon arrival into Bali - instead of a Jetstar 'close-to-midnight' arrival. You have a whole extra day's holiday...

The JQ flights from SYD on the dates I was thinking of arrive at 10pm. I don’t know GA’s schedule but assuming an early afternoon arrival, as you say, that wouldn’t sway me. I’d rather arrive safely six or so hours later than not at all.

The airbus aircraft are leased and have too comply with super strict maintenance requirements as set out by the lessors. And the EU ban has been lifted in respect of GA.

Yes but how many years did it take GA to get that ban lifted? And how long has it been since the ban was lifted? Respectively too long and not long enough, in my opinion.

Yes they have some safety issues. No one is denying that...I guess I just don't get this Garuda bashing.

For me it’s just a question mark over safety. I don’t want to appear to be “Garuda bashing”. I’ve never flown with them. My concern is based on their accident record. They might have changed, but I can’t know that. So based on what I do know, I’d rather not fly Garuda.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

I can’t be certain of why she laughed. I laughed because of Garuda’s history of plane crashes. My TA knows my reluctance to even fly on “second-tier” carriers, let alone a carrier with Garuda’s reputation. Perhaps that’s why she laughed.


The JQ flights from SYD on the dates I was thinking of arrive at 10pm. I don’t know GA’s schedule but assuming an early afternoon arrival, as you say, that wouldn’t sway me. I’d rather arrive safely six or so hours later than not at all.


Yes but how many years did it take GA to get that ban lifted? And how long has it been since the ban was lifted? Respectively too long and not long enough, in my opinion.



For me it’s just a question mark over safety. I don’t want to appear to be “Garuda bashing”. I’ve never flown with them. My concern is based on their accident record. They might have changed, but I can’t know that. So based on what I do know, I’d rather not fly Garuda.

Thanks for the polite reply


Garuda has had 4 crashes. Their EU ban lasted for two years, 2007 until 2009. FWIW however I'm not entirely sure the accidents they had were related to maintenance but rather to poor pilot judgement in poor conditions.

Qantas has had plenty of near misses (plunging over perth, gaping hole in side of fuselage ex HKG, uncontrolled engine failure ex SIN). What would be your position if a 'first tier' airline had a crash, such as QF? Would you, just out of interest, ban all travel on them? (this is not a challenge - just a genuine question). And Thai, would you fly them?

 

[Homer]

FWIW however I'm not entirely sure the accidents they had were related to maintenance but rather to poor pilot judgement in poor conditions.

As someone with an amateur interest I’ve noticed reports about the “poor pilot judgement” at Garuda (and some other carriers) in some places, including in the Air Crash Investigators series. That scares me just as much, if not more, than maintenance related accidents. If there is a cultural issue that causes, for example, the authority of the captain to go without challenge then they have a tougher issue to resolve than merely dodgy maintenance.

Qantas has had plenty of near misses (plunging over perth, gaping hole in side of fuselage ex HKG, uncontrolled engine failure ex SIN).

Near misses aren’t crashes, and just how “near”, or not, they happen to be is a matter of opinion. I’d take QF over any carrier for safety, any day of the week.

What would be your position if a 'first tier' airline had a crash, such as QF? Would you, just out of interest, ban all travel on them?

It’s hypothetical and obviously depends entirely on the circumstances. AA has had crashes and I travel on AA. GA’s issues seem somehow different to me - there seems to be a pattern involving maintenance, potentially cultural issues influencing flight crew behaviour and a suggestion of pressure from above to make risky decisions.

And Thai, would you fly them?

I have flown Thai domestically within Thailand three or four times.

 

[MEL_Traveller]

As someone with an amateur interest I’ve noticed reports about the “poor pilot judgement” at Garuda (and some other carriers) in some places, including in the Air Crash Investigators series. That scares me just as much, if not more, than maintenance related accidents. If there is a cultural issue that causes, for example, the authority of the captain to go without challenge then they have a tougher issue to resolve than merely dodgy maintenance.


Near misses aren’t crashes, and just how “near”, or not, they happen to be is a matter of opinion. I’d take QF over any carrier for safety, any day of the week.


It’s hypothetical and obviously depends entirely on the circumstances. AA has had crashes and I travel on AA. GA’s issues seem somehow different to me - there seems to be a pattern involving maintenance, potentially cultural issues influencing flight crew behaviour and a suggestion of pressure from above to make risky decisions.


I have flown Thai domestically within Thailand three or four times.

Thanks again for your considered comments. I can agree the cultural issues in the coughpit could represent cause for concern. But I note you still say 'pattern of maintenance issues'. I'm not so sure maintenance has been responsible for any of the accidents.

Note that Qantas has clearly crashed, they ran off the runway at Bangkok. They just haven't had any fatalities.