Business Class Trip Report

[maninblack]

I thought you'd been flying Virgin domestically before the J rollout, or do i have my wires crossed?

Correct, in PE whilst I awaited their J, so thank you for making that point. I have also flown Y on Qantaslink and similar airlines where no PE or J is available and have flown in domestic Y on rare occassions when J has been booked solid. I also flew in Y many times as achild and as a young adult.

Perhaps you would also like to question the other gentleman who made the claim " I only fly Business anywhere in the world and domestically" as to whether he has ever flown in Y...

Whilst in disagreement I think the points we were making are the same about where in the plane we do the vast majority of our flying.

 

[MarkD]

Not meaning to sound crude, BUT this thread really has degraded into a good old fashioned pissing contest hasnt it.
Ive flown 5000SC her, IM chairmans lounge, I own an Airline, I flew on the space shuttle. bahhhhhhhh

 

[firefox]

in my view there is no pissing competition. I simply put some stated facts on the table, so that i can show that the claims that Business class passengers are hating the fact the seats are wrong on some aircraft, is simply NOT true. Thats all.

When people make statements on open forums like this it can be seen as the "group" is stating something. Personally the thread, as well as the theme/feel of this forum at the moment, is very negative towards VA. And personally i don't like that, i think VA is doing a good job, constructive criticism is fine, but i think it has to be for the positive.

I would hope to see that the complaints and threats of the ACCC are just silly comments. VA i believe would have addressed any concerns, these are the things i am disappointed about. I am also disappointed that the complaints mainly generated from this forum have stopped the 737-700 flights from business class, which has affected a few people on this forum and a few people i know. Why was the decision taken, it was taken from people on this forum were negative towards VA and they had to act, it's like blackmail! Now people that were happy with the product I.E me are affected by it. Thats not right.

There was a better flight today i could have taken, that allowed me to spend a little more time with my kids. Well as i had to take an early flight as there were not selling tickets. If that flight (which was a 737-700) had allowed me to purchase a ticket this would have been better for me. Thats my complaint, the people speaking out on this forum, are we truly the people filling the business class seats on every flight, or are you just someone flying adhoc business (which is fine). Mainblack has said he flys only business weekly, which is great. I encourage him to talk directly to VA management (as i know they will listen they talk with every J class flyer) instead of maybe speaking out so negatively on this forum.

 

[maninblack]

in my view there is no pissing competition. I simply put some stated facts on the table, so that i can show that the claims that Business class passengers are hating the fact the seats are wrong on some aircraft, is simply NOT true. Thats all.

When people make statements on open forums like this it can be seen as the "group" is stating something. Personally the thread, as well as the theme/feel of this forum at the moment, is very negative towards VA. And personally i don't like that, i think VA is doing a good job, constructive criticism is fine, but i think it has to be for the positive.

I would hope to see that the complaints and threats of the ACCC are just silly comments. VA i believe would have addressed any concerns, these are the things i am disappointed about. I am also disappointed that the complaints mainly generated from this forum have stopped the 737-700 flights from business class, which has affected a few people on this forum and a few people i know. Why was the decision taken, it was taken from people on this forum were negative towards VA and they had to act, it's like blackmail! Now people that were happy with the product I.E me are affected by it. Thats not right.

There was a better flight today i could have taken, that allowed me to spend a little more time with my kids. Well as i had to take an early flight as there were not selling tickets. If that flight (which was a 737-700) had allowed me to purchase a ticket this would have been better for me. Thats my complaint, the people speaking out on this forum, are we truly the people filling the business class seats on every flight, or are you just someone flying adhoc business (which is fine). Mainblack has said he flys only business weekly, which is great. I encourage him to talk directly to VA management (as i know they will listen they talk with every J class flyer) instead of maybe speaking out so negatively on this forum.

I don't understand what you say but I will defend your right to say it.

(with apologies to Voltaire)

 

[dfcatch]

I am also disappointed that the complaints mainly generated from this forum have stopped the 737-700 flights from business class, which has affected a few people on this forum and a few people i know. Why was the decision taken, it was taken from people on this forum were negative towards VA and they had to act, it's like blackmail! Now people that were happy with the product I.E me are affected by it. Thats not right.

There was a better flight today i could have taken, that allowed me to spend a little more time with my kids. Well as i had to take an early flight as there were not selling tickets. If that flight (which was a 737-700) had allowed me to purchase a ticket this would have been better for me. Thats my complaint, the people speaking out on this forum, are we truly the people filling the business class seats on every flight, or are you just someone flying adhoc business (which is fine). Mainblack has said he flys only business weekly, which is great. I encourage him to talk directly to VA management (as i know they will listen they talk with every J class flyer) instead of maybe speaking out so negatively on this forum.

I'm sorry - but let me clarify a few points (and allow you to correct me if I've got something wrong).

1/ VA have stopped selling J (ie. their new inflated J fares) on a product that many feel does not live up to the fanfare of the new J (and therefore the new J pricing).

I haven't myself checked as to why they are not selling those seats at all..?? Or have they gone back to selling them as PE..?? I don't know - maybe they "over-reacted", but the fact that they "reacted" to me is a positive step - one which I have already gone on the record and acknowledged.

2/ Let me get this right - you couldn't spend more time with your kids - as the later flight was not a 737-800.

If I understand this right - you're blaming this forum for no J seats being available for sale on a 737-700, as a result of VA not selling them - because their premium J product is not ready on that aircraft yet..??

And it's the fault of this forum that you couldn't spend more time with your kids..???

I'm not sure if I got that right - because I may have misunderstood you.......


I don't mean to be rude - but it seems to me that the reason you caught the earlier flight and spent less time with your kids is because you're too self-important to bring yourself to buy a Y ticket.

IMHO - that's how it comes across.




You're entitled to be happy with VA (including the "Business Class offering" on 737-700s and E90s). Others are equally entitled to be unhappy with it.

And everyone is entitled to their opinion on J - regardless of how often they use it or how often they pay for it. (Or even IF they pay for it....perhaps someone else does).

I have a real personal problem with people who have some sense of entitlement that only they are entitled to something (in this case an opinion) - and no one else is qualified to do so.

You are guilty of the very crimes you lament about in your first post here this afternoon.

 

[notzac]

I haven't seen such a ranty thread on here in a while - am quite impressed!

What would be awfully nice is if both the QF and VA cheer squads (especially those that haven't recently flown / have no intention of flying VA domestic business) could pipe down a bit so that those that have flown it can be heard - the signal to noise ratio in this thread is getting dangerously low.

In addition to that, it'd be very nice to hear from one of the VA reps for some updates - I'm keen to know:

• Are the 73Gs (any of them) getting a J product?
• Is there an up-to-date, publically-shareable retirement schedule for the 73Gs?
• What is actually happening with the E190s? Is there anything that can be shared?
• If someone booked in J ends up on an aircraft with no J, what is the most expedient method of obtaining compensation ... do they PM one of the reps here, is there a good e-mail address to use or should they call the call centre?

 

[firefox]

If i want to to buy a J ticket and there's not one available, then i take a different flight. It's my choice on how i book and pay for tickets. Saying that i should have just taken a Y ticket doesn't make alot of sense, and it doesn't make alot of sense to VA either as i am willing to pay for a J ticket. Money in the bank for them.

What i have said all along and will re-state for clarity, is that VA management read this forum alot. And they act upon comments/feedback provided. As people have mentioned tonight everyone is entitled to their opinion and whether that be positive or negative is fine. However there was alot of very negative comments and few positive. VA have acted on the very negative which in turn has impacted on other people. I totally accept the fact there has been problems, and people need to be reimbursed or sorted out. However the level of negativity (towards VA) i felt was inappropriate and i am surprised the forum mods didn't step in. Threats of ACCC etc when VA is just trying to support a product is crazy.

I agree with noztac, the reason i wrote the post, was that i fly business VA, the comments i posted initially was to show that i do fly them J all the time, and that personally i think the product is actually damn good. (minus wine offerings..)

My understanding that i was told today by a VA rep was that it is next to impossible (not impossible) to book a J class ticket on an flight that is operated by a 737-700. They've removed it from everywhere, and only have flexi's on those planes. They will be upgrading etc i believe if required but you cannot book them anymore. E190's are a different story. If the plane is changed or downgraded after the fact the 50% discount for the seat is applied. If you get lucky and get one of the 737-700 and you get upgraded yipee!

 

[Princess Fiona]

I hope that you have conveyed to VA management that you are disappointed that they appear to you to have taken a decision to cease J flights on 737-700 flights in response to negative comments on AFF.

 

[oz_mark]

Why was the decision taken, it was taken from people on this forum were negative towards VA and they had to act, it's like blackmail! Now people that were happy with the product I.E me are affected by it. Thats not right.

While I have no doubt that feedback from this forum would be a factor in the decision, I would also think that there would have been feedback through their normal customer care channels. In essence, I think it would have been more than this forum!

 

[dfcatch]

If i want to to buy a J ticket and there's not one available, then i take a different flight. It's my choice on how i book and pay for tickets. Saying that i should have just taken a Y ticket doesn't make alot of sense, and it doesn't make alot of sense to VA either as i am willing to pay for a J ticket. Money in the bank for them.

What i have said all along and will re-state for clarity, is that VA management read this forum alot. And they act upon comments/feedback provided. As people have mentioned tonight everyone is entitled to their opinion and whether that be positive or negative is fine. However there was alot of very negative comments and few positive. VA have acted on the very negative which in turn has impacted on other people. I totally accept the fact there has been problems, and people need to be reimbursed or sorted out. However the level of negativity (towards VA) i felt was inappropriate and i am surprised the forum mods didn't step in. Threats of ACCC etc when VA is just trying to support a product is crazy.

I agree with noztac, the reason i wrote the post, was that i fly business VA, the comments i posted initially was to show that i do fly them J all the time, and that personally i think the product is actually damn good. (minus wine offerings..)

My understanding that i was told today by a VA rep was that it is next to impossible (not impossible) to book a J class ticket on an flight that is operated by a 737-700. They've removed it from everywhere, and only have flexi's on those planes. They will be upgrading etc i believe if required but you cannot book them anymore. E190's are a different story. If the plane is changed or downgraded after the fact the 50% discount for the seat is applied. If you get lucky and get one of the 737-700 and you get upgraded yipee!

Ok - I understand your viewpoint.

My viewpoint is quite simple:

1/ Everything that notzac said.

2/ On flights/aircraft where the product offering is clearly not even close to the "new, snazzy, advertised with great fanfare business class", then IMHO - it shouldn't be offered for sale as it (to me at least) is misleading as to the product that you are getting. (See post 1 for my evaluation of "Business" on the E90.) I can not comment on the 737-700 as I missed my connection so have not experienced the "new Business Class" on the 737-700.

3/ My point 2 doesn't mean the seats (row 1 and 2) shouldn't be sold. Just that they shouldn't be sold as J where they clearly are only PE.

To clarify - Old style seating in non-upgraded aircraft should simply be sold as PE, at PE prices, just like they were before Jan 18.

4/ I believe my viewpoint serves everyone well..... You're happy as you can buy a Premium ticket on any flight and get whatever premium service is available on that flight. I'm happy because I know what to expect on any given flight and can make my purchase decisions transparently. Others are happy because if they are only going to get PE, they are only paying PE, whereas if they pay for J - they know they will get J.

5/ If VA has over-reacted by doing more than what I suggested in point 2 above - then they have, quite simply "over reacted" - and to this end I accept your complaint.



As an aside - as a self-professed Premium cabin traveller - have you just been this loyal to VA since they introduced the new cabins/service on your BNE/MEL route? Or did you jump from QF a long time ago - even when VA(DJ) were only offering a basic PE service in basic old style seating? (I'm not having a crack - genuinely curious as to whether you are a J cabin afficionado or simply a high-spending VA fanboi?)

 

[firefox]

My usual breakdown flying last year say for November monthly

Va all in PE W class fares about 20 flights
qantas J class about 6-8 where VA couldn't offer what I wanted.
international is mixed between Nz and sq depends on local and where I Am going.

Domestically been flying va for a long time, split probably is va 75% and qantas 25%. I think va has a better product when it works over qantas.

I prefer va over qantas but when things break I hold either airline accountable, va is alot easier to deal with over qantas.

I fly premium-business only for personal and business reasons.

From what I was told va has over reacted, I was told the community at large and the online forum was definitely a driving force behind the decision. I can accept the reason for the change, but I honestly think for frequent business class flyers some of the issues they've had to deal with aren't that big. But if your sampling for the first time they might be a big issue, especially the cost. My flight difference between W class which was PE and J class bne-Mel is $200 PE was 599 and j is now 799.

Hope that answers your question.

 

[dfcatch]

My flight difference between W class which was PE and J class bne-Mel is $200 PE was 599 and j is now 799.

Hope that answers your question.

Yes it does.

If i was in your shoes (a regular W flyer paying $599 and happy with the product), I would be very satisfied getting the improved J for $799

In this context - I totally support where you're coming from.

IMHO it all comes down to expectations.

 

[medhead]

Not meaning to sound crude, BUT this thread really has degraded into a good old fashioned pissing contest hasnt it.
Ive flown 5000SC her, IM chairmans lounge, I own an Airline, I flew on the space shuttle. bahhhhhhhh

You went to teniffre, I went to 11-iffre.

 

[lovestotravel]

DYKWIA I can only laugh and laugh again

 

[MarkD]

You went to teniffre, I went to 11-iffre.

And I visited the twelve apostles

 

[Virgin Australia]

I haven't seen such a ranty thread on here in a while - am quite impressed!

What would be awfully nice is if both the QF and VA cheer squads (especially those that haven't recently flown / have no intention of flying VA domestic business) could pipe down a bit so that those that have flown it can be heard - the signal to noise ratio in this thread is getting dangerously low.

In addition to that, it'd be very nice to hear from one of the VA reps for some updates - I'm keen to know:

• Are the 73Gs (any of them) getting a J product?
• Is there an up-to-date, publically-shareable retirement schedule for the 73Gs?
• What is actually happening with the E190s? Is there anything that can be shared?
• If someone booked in J ends up on an aircraft with no J, what is the most expedient method of obtaining compensation ... do they PM one of the reps here, is there a good e-mail address to use or should they call the call centre?

The 737-700 fleet is now marketed and sold as Economy only and operating on specific routes. Approximately one 700 series aircraft will be leaving the fleet each month up until August, leaving us just 4 x 700s. We have plans to refurbish these remaining four 737-700 aircraft to the same standard as the 737-800 standard as soon as we can.

For those who have already booked on a flight that would be operated by a 700, we have been proactively contacting you to address the difference.

Our E-190 refurbishments are due to be completed by the end of February. More information to come on the E-jets.

We've worked extremely hard to put in place a cabin product that matches the service that our cabin crew have been delivering to you, so while we are disappointed to hear certain feedback, we are continuing to do all we can to correct these issues as soon as possible.

The call centre should be your first port of call should you have any questions or difficulties.

 

[The Rok]

The 737-700 fleet is now marketed and sold as Economy only and operating on specific routes. Approximately one 700 series aircraft will be leaving the fleet each month up until August, leaving us just 4 x 700s. We have plans to refurbish these remaining four 737-700 aircraft to the same standard as the 737-800 standard as soon as we can.

For those who have already booked on a flight that would be operated by a 700, we have been proactively contacting you to address the difference.

Our E-190 refurbishments are due to be completed by the end of February. More information to come on the E-jets.

We've worked extremely hard to put in place a cabin product that matches the service that our cabin crew have been delivering to you, so while we are disappointed to hear certain feedback, we are continuing to do all we can to correct these issues as soon as possible.

The call centre should be your first port of call should you have any questions or difficulties.

Thats about as clear and concise as you can get and should put an end to the coughing.

 

[dfcatch]

The 737-700 fleet is now marketed and sold as Economy only and operating on specific routes. Approximately one 700 series aircraft will be leaving the fleet each month up until August, leaving us just 4 x 700s. We have plans to refurbish these remaining four 737-700 aircraft to the same standard as the 737-800 standard as soon as we can.

For those who have already booked on a flight that would be operated by a 700, we have been proactively contacting you to address the difference.

Our E-190 refurbishments are due to be completed by the end of February. More information to come on the E-jets.

We've worked extremely hard to put in place a cabin product that matches the service that our cabin crew have been delivering to you, so while we are disappointed to hear certain feedback, we are continuing to do all we can to correct these issues as soon as possible.

The call centre should be your first port of call should you have any questions or difficulties.

Thank you VA for your post.

As you can see from my post #1 above, I'm particularly looking forward to further information on the E190s as being in CNS my 73H options are limited.

The Cabin service is there - it will be good when the hard product is too

Will the new E190 business seating be 1x2 or 2x1 (i.e. 3 across the cabin)?

 

[notzac]

Also thanks for the update! Like dfcatch, I'm keen to know what the J/Y cabins in the E190 are going to look like..

 

[VOZZY]

The 737-700 fleet is now marketed and sold as Economy only and operating on specific routes. Approximately one 700 series aircraft will be leaving the fleet each month up until August, leaving us just 4 x 700s. We have plans to refurbish these remaining four 737-700 aircraft to the same standard as the 737-800 standard as soon as we can.

For those who have already booked on a flight that would be operated by a 700, we have been proactively contacting you to address the difference.

Our E-190 refurbishments are due to be completed by the end of February. More information to come on the E-jets.

We've worked extremely hard to put in place a cabin product that matches the service that our cabin crew have been delivering to you, so while we are disappointed to hear certain feedback, we are continuing to do all we can to correct these issues as soon as possible.

The call centre should be your first port of call should you have any questions or difficulties.

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