Business Class Circle Pacific Fare

[MelUser]

I am looking at circle pacific business fare - 22000km - about $7300 and have a couple of questions:

(1) I want to do MEL-HKG-NRT_DFW-LAX_MEL but it comes to about 22040. WIll they let the extra 40 km go?

(2) If not, I will do MEL-NRT-DFW-LAW-MEL. The fare stipulates minimum 2 stopovers. How long does a stopover have to be?Can 1 stopover be in DFW and the 2nd in LAX or does one have to be in Asia - i NRT?

(3) Changing first flight out of australia seems to be a no no with this fare - they bill you 11% and you have to rebook. Is it possible to avoid the rebooking fee be upgrading to the first class circle pacific fare and making the changes?

thanks

 

[Evan]

I will try to answer with my expereince with similar fares...

1.) No, no chance, it must be under the 22,000 in your case. But also be reminded that it the booking airlines calculations, they dont always match the Great Circle Mapper figures. (Just look at QF, MEL-SYD international flight is different kms than MEL-SYD domestic, i guess the terminals are further away ?)

2.) On the DAS fares it simply must be 2 stop overs, so you can simply transit NRT as you have indicated. But that was on a circle asia fare, not sure about the other one. Fare conditions are one the onework wed site oneworld - Home

3.) Yes you should be right if you upgrade to first and change the date at the same time. Keep in mind some services like MEL-NRT dont have first to book so you will end up in business.

E

 

[Travel Guru]

Your reply concurs with the written rules of the fare so it all looks right as per what you've stated Evan

TG

 

[NM]

I am looking at circle pacific business fare - 22000km - about $7300 and have a couple of questions:

I think you meant to say miles and not km there.

(1) I want to do MEL-HKG-NRT_DFW-LAX_MEL but it comes to about 22040. WIll they let the extra 40 km go?

No leeway granted on the mileage count. However, the airlines to calculate the miles slightly differently to great circle mapper, so its possible their calc may be 40 miles different to yours.

(2) If not, I will do MEL-NRT-DFW-LAW-MEL. The fare stipulates minimum 2 stopovers. How long does a stopover have to be?Can 1 stopover be in DFW and the 2nd in LAX or does one have to be in Asia - i NRT?

Stopover needs to be >24 hours and can be anywhere. No minimums per region.

(3) Changing first flight out of australia seems to be a no no with this fare - they bill you 11% and you have to rebook. Is it possible to avoid the rebooking fee be upgrading to the first class circle pacific fare and making the changes?

The fare does not need to ticketed until 7 days before departure. If its not been ticketed then there are no costs to change. However, be aware there are different ticketing deadlines depending on how early you make the booking, so may need to be issued earlier in some circumstances. For me its the 7 days that can be a problem since I often book with less than a week's notice. I have never tried to apply the fare to a higher class to avoid the cancellation fee so can't help you there.

 

[MelUser]

Thanks everyone for prompt answers.

Could I get around the 40 miles problem by flying out of Sydney - ie SYD-HKG-NRT-DFW-LAX-MEL.

IE: will the fare allow you to commence in SYD and terminate in MEL?

Also, does anyone know what date changes for a subsequent sector cost after the first international leg has been flown [ie after the point at which they can hit you with 11%]?

thanks!

 

[NM]

Thanks everyone for prompt answers.

Could I get around the 40 miles problem by flying out of Sydney - ie SYD-HKG-NRT-DFW-LAX-MEL.

IE: will the fare allow you to commence in SYD and terminate in MEL?

Yes, you can do that. However, it is possible the airline may include the "surface sector" between origin and destination in the mileage calculation. Here are the relevant rules:

Travel may originate at any point for which fares are published and must terminate at the
same point, except that origin-destination surface segments are permitted as follows:
(a) within country of origin
(b) between USA and Canada

which defines the different origin and destination within the same country as being permitted, but also defines it as a surface segment.

Surface travel and use of other carriers between intermediate points along the circle which are
not operated by AA/BA/CX/EG/JC/JL/JO/KA/ LA/LP/NU/QF/XL/4M is permitted at the
passenger's expense and must be ticketed separately. Mileage must be included in the MPM
calculation.

which then says that surface segments are included in the mileage calculation.

Also, does anyone know what date changes for a subsequent sector cost after the first international leg has been flown [ie after the point at which they can hit you with 11%]?

Changes to date/time that do not alter the routing can be made at no cost. Changes to the routing will require a re-issue and that costs US$100. Note that some agents/airlines may also charge their own service fee on top of the fee defined in the fare rules.

 

[Travel Guru]

Open Jawing out of SYD and back into MEL would be allowed, the miles between SYD and MEL wouldn't be calculated, but according to GAL, you're still 14 miles over so that could pose a problem if GAL and AMADEUS (QFs GDS) are giving the same mileage reading.

Perhaps look at ex BNE if SYD doesn't work for you.

TG

 

[NM]

Open Jawing out of SYD and back into MEL would be allowed...

So is it the use of the words "between intermediate points" in the rules I quoted above that means the open jaw surface sector is not included in the MPM?

 

[Evan]

Greate circle mapper has it as 6miles out... (via SYD)

BNE or the other option was ADL will work.

- CX fly ADL-HKG (CX104), its a A333 but not sure what config (regional or long haul)
- CX fly BNE-HKG (CX102), its a A330 but not sure what config (regional or long haul, think this one really is a regional config)

E

 

[Evan]

Could always leave SYD and return SYD, just add some cheap domestic flights to get to and from SYD. Or consider doing domestic LAX-DFW-LAX instead.

E

 

[wrldtrvllr]

The airlines are pretty strict in adhering to mileage rules - I tried to book an itinerary for DCIR29 that was 5mi over according to their calcs - no go...

Why not try MEL-HKG-NRT-DFW-LAX-SYD?
That will save you some mileage instead of transpacific down to MEL - you'll just need to get some cheap o/w back to MEL. And because you finish in the same country the surface mileage back to origin won't count (My itinerary was ex-KHH but return to TPE - squeezed out a few more miles from that!) but INTERMEDIATE surface segments will...

 

[NM]

- CX fly ADL-HKG (CX104), its a A333 but not sure what config (regional or long haul)
- CX fly BNE-HKG (CX102), its a A330 but not sure what config (regional or long haul, think this one really is a regional config)

CX104 from AKL actually goes via MEL and is a 3-class long-haul international config.

CX102 is normally a 2-class regional config and some days of the week operates via CNS.

 

[MelUser]

Does anyone know if MEL-HKG-DFW-LAX-MEL will work?

IE, when assessing HKG - DFW will they count where planes are actually flying? What is best way from HKG to DFW (trying to avoid LAX on way in to US)?

thanks,

 

[Keith009]

Does anyone know if MEL-HKG-DFW-LAX-MEL will work?

IE, when assessing HKG - DFW will they count where planes are actually flying? What is best way from HKG to DFW (trying to avoid LAX on way in to US)?

thanks,

The actual route travelled will be taken into account. MEL-HKG-DFW-LAX-MEL is already 21 869 miles according to GCC.

Ending the itinerary in SYD would give you a bit of leeway.

SFO would work as a transit point for HKG-DFW, or avoiding the US altogether - NRT.

 

[MelUser]

MEL-HKG-YVR(Vancouver)-DFW-LAX-MEL comes to 21918 miles on MileageMonkey(c ALs).

Will airlines accept this?

Who is best to ticket - QF or a TA?

I take it from earlier advice that it doesn't matter where in 2 of these places I stop for at least 24 hours?

Also, is there a maximum stopover time in any one place - may want to stay in DFW for 1 month?

If I buy this fare, I guess it will be QF (business), then Cathay (business). Will YVR to DFW and DFW to LAX be in AA 1st? Will this 1st earn 1st SCs and points on QFF? [I am doing some travel on AA in 1st which has ticketed on QF (D) and am told it will earn business SCs/points]

thanks,

 

[NM]

Does anyone know if MEL-HKG-DFW-LAX-MEL will work?

IE, when assessing HKG - DFW will they count where planes are actually flying? What is best way from HKG to DFW (trying to avoid LAX on way in to US)?

thanks,

There is no HKG-DFW flight. You can avoid LAX by routing NRT-DFW. But LAX is not as bad as it once was. I would not go out of my way just to avoid LAX.

Mileage is the sum of the distances between origin and destination as shown on the ticket sectors. So HKG-LAX-DFW will be the sum of HKG-LAX and LAX-DFW, even if you only transit in LAX. But note that for a flight like CX104 that routes ADL-MEL-HKG, if the ticket just shows ADL-HKG then the mileage is that of ADL-HKG and not ADL-MEL-HKG. But it must be ticketed as a single sector ADL-HKG for that to be the case.

 

[Keith009]

21918 miles is cutting it a bit close as I usually find the airlines usually come up with more distance over what's shown on GCC. No harm trying though.

You could contact AA to issue the ticket to save on fuel fines, though they might require (or at least hard sell you into agreeing) that LAX-MEL be booked on the AA codeshare. Simply organise the itinerary with the ATW desk (+1800 247 3247), give it 2-24 hours for the itinerary to be priced, then call IndiAA to get AA SYD to issue the ticket - 1800 673 486.

It doesn't matter where the stopovers so long as you have 2 outside country of origin. EDIT: Actually I'd paste the relevant fare rules here:

FOR -22 TYPE FARES 2 FREE STOPOVERS REQUIRED AND A MAXIMUM OF 4 PERMITTED. NOTE - ONLY ONE STOPOVER PERMITTED AT ANY POINT. --- TWO STOPOVERS REQUIRED OUTSIDE COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. --- A MAXIMUM OF ONE STOPOVER IN COUNTRY OF ORIGIN. --- A MAXIMUM OF TWO FREE STOPOVERS PER REGION - SWP/ ASIA/NORTH AMERICA/SOUTH AMERICA. --- WHERE A PASSENGER DISEMBARKS AT ONE POINT AND RE-EMBARKS AT A SUBSEQUENT POINT ENROUTE THE POINTS COUNT AS A SINGLE STOPOVER. --- ADDITIONAL STOPS PERMITTED AT AN ADDITIONAL CHARGE PER STOPOVER OF USD75.00/CAD115.00 - ADDITIONAL STOPOVERS MAY NOT BE PURCHASED IN COUNTRY OF ORIGIN - ADDITIONAL STOPOVERS RESTRICTED TO TWO STOPOVERS PER REGION - CHILD/INFANT DISCOUNT NOT APPLICABLE

There is no maximum stopover time, so long as the ticket adheres to the minimum and maximum validities of 5 days and 12 months respectively.

You will be booked into business (D) for YVR-DFW as AA operates that service as J/Y. You will earn business class points/SCs for that sector. DFW-LAX will be booked in first (A) and will attract first class points/SCs.

 

[MelUser]

Why does it matter whether LAX-MEL is ticketed as AA or QF [I am a member of QFF or is this so that LAX-MEL counts as 1 of the 4 annual QF sectors to maintain status?]?

thanks,

 

[Keith009]

Why does it matter whether LAX-MEL is ticketed as AA or QF [I am a member of QFF or is this so that LAX-MEL counts as 1 of the 4 annual QF sectors to maintain status?]?

thanks,

Being on the AA codeshare means the segment won't count towards the minimum QF segments requirement. OTOH it'd count should you decide to jump ship to AAdvantage and do the Platinum challenge.

Plus as the codeshare isn;t allowed to be oversold, it'd virtually diminish your op up chances to literally zero. Not that it's terribly easy to get an op up anyway.

So all things being equal it doesn't matter whether AA or QF code for you as a pax.

 

[MelUser]

CAn I get Cathay Pacific to ticket this?

I want to do MEL-HKG-YVR (all Cathay), stop YVR 24.5 hours. Then YVR to DFW AA, stop, then DFW-MEL (via LAX AA/QF).