Booking several airlines on the one ticket - do I need a travel agent?

[RooFlyer]

One PNR, one itinerary print out. Where there's immediate connections involved, you would be through-checked.

Eg. CBR-ADL on a VA ticket, ADL-DOH-LHR on a QR ticket, on the same PNR. VA would through-check all the way to LHR even though QR isn't strictly a key partner as such... VA won't through-check on separate PNRs.

Another example ... I've currently got a PNR where SA will be through-checking to QR and BA through-checking to SA.

Sorry, can I ask for a clarification? My TA has booked me on all sorts of airline combination gymnastics over the years and it works well. There is a PNR at the top of the itinerary (that of the 'ticketing airline') BUT there are separate PNRs for those airlines who don't share the same booking engine with the 'ticketing airline'. Even AA and Qantas issue separate PNRs within the same itinerary.

I always make sure that I get all the different airline PNRs and ticket numbers because if there is a problem with a flight of airline X, which is not the ticketing airline, quoting their own PNR will always result in more efficient assistance. Quoting the ticketing airline's PNR to airline X may well result in just blank stares.

So yes, a TA can 'join' separate PNRs into one itinerary, but there are still multiple PNRs within it ... correct?

Sorry to be really dumb (I am!) but are you saying a TA can book these types of connections, but I can't?

TAs can do all sorts of things that punters in the street can't do on line - such as access special (complex) fares, get exceptions to rules (such as 'South America cannot be included in this RTW fare') and, yes join PNRs into one itinerary.

 

[serfty]

While there may be many PNR's relevant to a booking, only the booking agency's (TA, OTA, Airline) PNR is relevant in the context here.

I have had several such, mainly xONEx's. (AA, QF/BA, JL, CX ...)

 

[RooFlyer]

Sorry, I can't see that other airlines PNRs on the same itinerary are not relevant, in the (wider ) context here. For example, quoting Qatar's PNR (the ticketing airline) to Pegusus Airlines in Turkey (who have issued their own PNR) will very likely result in grief, especially if the agent has poor English - no matter what is 'supposed' to happen (been there, done that, learned the lesson). I think the individual PNRs are very relevant and should be handy every time you check in, but more especially if there is a problem or you need to phone them.

 

[ftm]

Sorry, I can't see that other airlines PNRs on the same itinerary are not relevant, in the (wider ) context here. For example, quoting Qatar's PNR (the ticketing airline) to Pegusus Airlines in Turkey (who have issued their own PNR) will very likely result in grief, especially if the agent has poor English - no matter what is 'supposed' to happen (been there, done that, learned the lesson). I think the individual PNRs are very relevant and should be handy every time you check in, but more especially if there is a problem or you need to phone them.

You are getting PNR and Record Locators (Relocs) mixed up. A PNR is the master reference that is generated by the GDS of the booking agent. Within that PNR, each airline will have their own record locator for the various flight segments, which references the reservation in their system. Sometimes this record locator can be the same as the master PNR reference if the airline is on the same GDS as the booking agent. If they aren't, then it will be different.

Your absolutely right that the individual airline Relocs are important to have on hand when you travel, but your itinerary will always have that.

 

[RooFlyer]

Might be splitting hairs, but I just asked my TA about this (dealt with the +10 years, mid sized corporate lot in Melbourne).

You are right (and I was wrong) that the PNR at the top of the itinerary is generated by the GDS system the TA uses - mine uses Amadeus. So airlines within the itinerary that also use Amadeus will have the same PNR. Airlines within the itinerary which use a different booking engine (Sabre, Galileo) will have different PNRs for their segments.

However the TA was adamant that the airline "booking references" within the itinerary are PNRs, not some lesser 'record locator'. The one up the top has no greater or lesser 'pull' than each airlines' own PNR, if they are different.

I also misinterpreted serfty above when he said the 'master PNR' at the top was the relevant one in this context - I didn't consider 'in this context' (ie wrapping mixed airlines up with a bow) enough.

As an aside, I got a bit more info. Apparently not all 'Amadeus' systems are the same. If an airline has gone a bit cheap on Amadeus specs, then its systems won't talk to other Amadeus airlines' bookings as clearly as they might. And if two Amadeus cheapos try to communicate ... watch out!

Apparently BA has recently moved to Amadeus, and for a while they were on 2 systems?

 

[serfty]

My reference was in the context of this thread.

Of course, all PNR's are relevant, but the booking Agency's PNR would have all segments, thus allowing for checked luggage interlining.

e.g. With a QF booking having EK flights, you can't preselect seating on the EK metal without having the EK PNR (even if you put the QF Amadeus number in on EK.com and it successfully converts, it still comes up under EK's PNR).

If I had a QF booking with AA segments showing under QF PNR as:

-NRT-(QF)-xSYD-(QF)-MEL-(QF)-xLAX-(AA)-BOS-(AA)-MIA-(AA)-LAX-(QF)-BNE-ADL

It would likely show under the AA SABRE PNR as a dubset , specifically relating to AA flights and their connections/transits:

MEL-(QF)-xLAX-(AA)-BOS-(AA)-MIA-(AA)-LAX.

 

[madrooster]

Might be splitting hairs, but I just asked my TA about this (dealt with the +10 years, mid sized corporate lot in Melbourne).

You are right (and I was wrong) that the PNR at the top of the itinerary is generated by the GDS system the TA uses - mine uses Amadeus. So airlines within the itinerary that also use Amadeus will have the same PNR. Airlines within the itinerary which use a different booking engine (Sabre, Galileo) will have different PNRs for their segments.

However the TA was adamant that the airline "booking references" within the itinerary are PNRs, not some lesser 'record locator'. The one up the top has no greater or lesser 'pull' than each airlines' own PNR, if they are different.

I also misinterpreted serfty above when he said the 'master PNR' at the top was the relevant one in this context - I didn't consider 'in this context' (ie wrapping mixed airlines up with a bow) enough.

As an aside, I got a bit more info. Apparently not all 'Amadeus' systems are the same. If an airline has gone a bit cheap on Amadeus specs, then its systems won't talk to other Amadeus airlines' bookings as clearly as they might. And if two Amadeus cheapos try to communicate ... watch out!

Apparently BA has recently moved to Amadeus, and for a while they were on 2 systems?

So, lets put this one to bed once and for all...

Lets define some terms:

GDS - a global distribution system that is connected to network of systems that talk to each other, distributing travel products (hotels, air, etc).
PNR - a record containing bookings (air, hotel, cars etc) (think a sheet of paper with sentences written on it for example)
Record locator - the 5 or 6 character reference that allows you to bring up a PNR
Master PNR - the PNR created by whoever is selling you the travel products, that might be an airline directly or a travel agent
Shared PNR - a single PNR shared between multiple carriers and/or a travel agent
Dedicated PNR - a PNR that is solely for the use of one GDS user, eg. a travel agent, or a specific airline

Travel agents use a GDS system for selling travel products - the main 3 out there are Galileo, Sabre and Amadeus.

When a travel agent creates a PNR, that PNR is the master PNR. The master PNR has a record locator of ABCDEF. For this example, this travel agent uses Amadeus as their GDS.

A PNR has a one to one relationship with a record locator. For every PNR in existence, there is one record locator.

The travel agent then adds the following flights to the master PNR in Amadeus:

QF SYD-LAX
AA LAX-JFK
LA JFK-SCL
JJ SCL-GRU
BA GRU-LHR
IB LHR-MAD
QR MAD-DOH
EK DOH-DXB
CX DXB-HKG
JL HKG-NRT
JL NRT-SYD

This example contains only primes - ie. marketed and operated by the same airline. Codeshares add additional complexity (and more PNRs + record locators) which I won't explain here. Codeshares for example can have up to 3 PNRs and 3 record locators -- for just one flight.

Lets now look at what GDS each airline is on and the record locators that each airline has returned.

QF - Amadeus - ABCDEF
AA - Sabre - GHIJKL
LA - Sabre - MNOPQR
JJ - Amadeus - ABCDEF
BA - Amadeus - ABCDEF
IB - Amadeus - ABCDEF
QR - Amadeus - ABCDEF
EK - Mercator - STUVWX
CX - Amadeus - ABCDEF
JL - Axess - 123XYZ

Some notes on record locators and PNRs....

- All the Amadeus carriers have returned the same record locator. Amadeus uses shared PNRs. This means that there is only one Amadeus PNR and that PNR is shared between all Amadeus carriers AND the travel agent (if the travel agent also uses Amadeus). Amadeus isn't duplicating the PNR across QF, JJ, BA, IB, QR, CX and the travel agent - there is literally just one PNR. Travel agents can even reference specific line numbers in the PNR when talking to an airline that is also using Amadeus.

- The Sabre carriers have returned different record locators. Sabre uses dedicated PNRs. This means that in Sabre, this passenger has TWO PNRs. One dedicated to AA and one dedicated to LA. The content in the AA PNR may not necessarily be the same as what is in LA's PNR. AA cannot see LA's PNR and LA cannot see AA's PNR.

- EK and JL use odd not-so-mainstream systems. In their Mercator and Axess systems respectively, there would be a PNR in each for this passenger.

- In summary, this passenger has the following FIVE PNRs (and FIVE record locators):

Amadeus - ABCDEF - shared by QF, JJ, BA, IB, QR, CX + the travel agent (the master PNR originally created by the travel agent)
Sabre - GHIJKL - AA
Sabre - MNOPQR - LA
Mercator - STUVWX - EK
Axess - 123XYZ - JL

--------------------

What's in each PNR? Below is a rough indication.

Amadeus - ABCDEF - shared by QF, JJ, BA, IB, QR, CX + the travel agent - the master PNR:

QF SYD-LAX
AA LAX-JFK
LA JFK-SCL
JJ SCL-GRU
BA GRU-LHR
IB LHR-MAD
QR MAD-DOH
EK DOH-DXB
CX DXB-HKG
JL HKG-NRT
JL NRT-SYD

(in other words everything being the master PNR)

Sabre - GHIJKL - AA:

QF SYD-LAX
AA LAX-JFK
LA JFK-SCL

Sabre - MNOPQR - LA:

AA LAX-JFK
LA JFK-SCL
JJ SCL-GRU

Mercator - STUVWX - EK:

QR MAD-DOH
EK DOH-DXB
CX DXB-HKG

Axess - 123XYZ - JL:

CX DXB-HKG
JL HKG-NRT
JL NRT-SYD

Some notes about PNR issues...

- Amadeus (the holder of the master PNR) sends the other GDS systems (the non master PNRs) only the specific information needed by the other GDS systems. Usually this will be your preceding and following flights so that the airline knows where you're coming from, and where you're going next.

- With so many PNRs, occasionally PNRs can be out of sync. A flight will appear in one PNR and not the other. The travel agent is the one responsible for sorting this out with their GDS helpdesk (Amadeus in this case) if that happens, if they notice it.

- Who can see what? The travel agent can only see the Amadeus PNR. The Amadeus carriers (QF/JJ/BA/IB/QR/CX) can only see the Amadeus PNR. AA can only see their own Sabre PNR. LA can only see their own Sabre PNR. EK can only see their own Mercator PNR and JL can only see their own Axess PNR.

What about through-checking and the effect that same PNR / separate PNRs has?

- When your itinerary is all in one (master) PNR, each airline along your trip knows what you are doing before and after their flight. This means that when an airline is running late, they can see your full itinerary and rebook you accordingly.

- When you have separate PNRs, the airline checking you in is reliant on you providing information on what to print on your bag tag. If that airline is late, they may not have access to your second PNR for the purposes of rebooking you.

Hopefully that makes it much clearer for everyone.

 

[ftm]

Excellent explanation. Thank you.